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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4470134 times)

smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol: Congress attempts to cross streams while working on tax 'reform'
« Reply #14670 on: November 15, 2017, 03:42:05 pm »

@Dunamis: I find it difficult to understand why they would vote for a criminal like that either, also, there ARE Democrats in Alabama. I share the same frustration at conservatives, but let's not pull the same 'basket of deplorables' thing Clinton did.

The Democrats really do have a problem with rural areas, but solving it won't involve calling everybody in the rural areas stupid.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol: Congress attempts to cross streams while working on tax 'reform'
« Reply #14671 on: November 15, 2017, 03:45:50 pm »

There is yet hope though, a new Republican poll shows Moore behind Jones by 12 points. http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/360535-republican-poll-moore-12-points-behind-democrat-jones
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 03:47:36 pm by smjjames »
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Draignean

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Re: AmeriPol: Congress attempts to cross streams while working on tax 'reform'
« Reply #14672 on: November 15, 2017, 03:49:40 pm »

@Dunamis: I find it difficult to understand why they would vote for a criminal like that either, also, there ARE Democrats in Alabama. I share the same frustration at conservatives, but let's not pull the same 'basket of deplorables' thing Clinton did.

The Democrats really do have a problem with rural areas, but solving it won't involve calling everybody in the rural areas stupid.

I believe Duna was more being Swiftian levels of sarcastic in order to undercut the inherently biased and rather... aloof* nature of Redking's post.

*I need a nice way to say Arrogantly dickish.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: AmeriPol: Congress attempts to cross streams while working on tax 'reform'
« Reply #14673 on: November 15, 2017, 03:51:29 pm »

Oddly enough, by purely party affiliation Texas should also be purple.  Differing levels of voter turnout, gerrymandering, and the electoral college make it kind of a moot point tho.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Notice how the blue districts are on average larger than the Republican districts despite being vastly more populated.  Notice in particular Austin is a single district despite being the capital.  You can also see how Dallas is split into a single large district that's hugely blue and three small districts that are slightly red.  Thus Republicans maintain tight control of every level of government despite only a 9 point difference in the 2016 election.

...I don't know why I'm even talking about this.  I just think its interesting that Texas might shift blue.  I know that land in Texas is so cheap people are coming in from other parts of the country, notably California.
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Rolan7

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Re: AmeriPol: Congress attempts to cross streams while working on tax 'reform'
« Reply #14674 on: November 15, 2017, 03:51:56 pm »

RTP, Charlotte, Asheville, UNC towns...NC is a swing state, not a red state. The rural areas have just been better organized during the Obama years, but that pendulum is about to swing back.

I was born here and I resent the idea that we're all haughty carpetbaggers and Not Real Southerners.
Yeah, especially considering that most of my family is still in rural NC and largely fits the stereotype, to various degrees.  My mom is from out of state, though: a rural heavily-conservative town in Virginia.
We're not "outsiders", it's just the effect urban areas have on... frankly?  Tolerance and open-mindedness.

Fortunately my dad's family has a tradition of listening to us city-folk, as long as there's mutual respect.  Mom's not so much, despite being farther north!  I'm honestly glad I've grown up with people from both sides, even extremists on both sides.  It's good to learn that both sides deserve respect, even when people are disastrously wrong.  As long as there's mutual respect, there's hope for discussion and lasting change.  And when they dehumanize you, you have to move on to those who will listen.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol: Congress attempts to cross streams while working on tax 'reform'
« Reply #14675 on: November 15, 2017, 03:54:30 pm »

@Dunamis: I find it difficult to understand why they would vote for a criminal like that either, also, there ARE Democrats in Alabama. I share the same frustration at conservatives, but let's not pull the same 'basket of deplorables' thing Clinton did.

The Democrats really do have a problem with rural areas, but solving it won't involve calling everybody in the rural areas stupid.

I believe Duna was more being Swiftian levels of sarcastic in order to undercut the inherently biased and rather... aloof* nature of Redking's post.

*I need a nice way to say Arrogantly dickish.

This is correct :)

I'm sorry for being a bit um... heated about it, but these folks will look to us as regular joes for what life as an alternative to what they have now would be like. We are spending our energy fighting against people, their families, and their personal beliefs rather than fighting against things like racism or poverty or corruption.

I've always been reluctant to participate in a political party, but what turned me hardline a-partisan was an article I saw after the 2016 election that described every single person who didn't vote for Clinton, literally, with no satire, as sub human animals that did not deserve the same human love that card-carrying democrats deserve. This included immediate members of this person's household.

They are voting for a pedophile because we, who are supposed have made ourselves a better example of life without racism, bigotry, and extremism, we have made ourselves less attractive than a pedophile, and that is a difficult admission to make. We MUST publicly (and harder, privately) separate the idea of fighting for what's right against fighting the people who live under evil if we want lasting change.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol: Congress attempts to cross streams while working on tax 'reform'
« Reply #14676 on: November 15, 2017, 04:01:58 pm »

Texas has actually been trending towards purple for decades now, partially driven by demographic change. It's not the Republican bastion it once was, though they still like to think of themselves as one, which is fine really.
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Lucus Casius

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Re: AmeriPol: Congress attempts to cross streams while working on tax 'reform'
« Reply #14677 on: November 15, 2017, 04:18:31 pm »

I'm not here to fight for what's right, man.  I'm just here to push my subjective personal views on other people.  That's the entire point of politics.  Also, life.
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Karnewarrior

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Re: AmeriPol: Congress attempts to cross streams while working on tax 'reform'
« Reply #14678 on: November 15, 2017, 04:43:04 pm »

Oddly enough, by purely party affiliation Texas should also be purple.  Differing levels of voter turnout, gerrymandering, and the electoral college make it kind of a moot point tho.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Notice how the blue districts are on average larger than the Republican districts despite being vastly more populated.  Notice in particular Austin is a single district despite being the capital.  You can also see how Dallas is split into a single large district that's hugely blue and three small districts that are slightly red.  Thus Republicans maintain tight control of every level of government despite only a 9 point difference in the 2016 election.

...I don't know why I'm even talking about this.  I just think its interesting that Texas might shift blue.  I know that land in Texas is so cheap people are coming in from other parts of the country, notably California.
That Dallas district (the really sqare one in the North, right? I forget my Lone Star Geography, since I'm Floridian and thus have a 25 IQ) isn't really much bigger than the republican districts. It is notable though that it's the most densely populated and the red districts all have large rural areas, so it's definitely been gerrymandered.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol: Congress attempts to cross streams while working on tax 'reform'
« Reply #14679 on: November 15, 2017, 04:48:50 pm »

Okay Lucus.

On the California shooter, it turns out the guy wasn't supposed to have guns due to, take a guess....     domestic violence. https://www.axios.com/california-gunman-shouldnt-have-had-gun-2509784787.html Also had a severe anger problem and mental illness.

According to this, the guns he had were two homemade semi-autos (doesn't say how they were made, wouldn't surprise me if they were 3D printed) and two registered under someone else. http://thehill.com/homenews/360542-california-shooter-was-barred-from-owning-guns-report

Oddly enough, by purely party affiliation Texas should also be purple.  Differing levels of voter turnout, gerrymandering, and the electoral college make it kind of a moot point tho.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Notice how the blue districts are on average larger than the Republican districts despite being vastly more populated.  Notice in particular Austin is a single district despite being the capital.  You can also see how Dallas is split into a single large district that's hugely blue and three small districts that are slightly red.  Thus Republicans maintain tight control of every level of government despite only a 9 point difference in the 2016 election.

...I don't know why I'm even talking about this.  I just think its interesting that Texas might shift blue.  I know that land in Texas is so cheap people are coming in from other parts of the country, notably California.
That Dallas district (the really sqare one in the North, right? I forget my Lone Star Geography, since I'm Floridian and thus have a 25 IQ) isn't really much bigger than the republican districts. It is notable though that it's the most densely populated and the red districts all have large rural areas, so it's definitely been gerrymandered.

Gerrymandered in the sense of having more rural districts in proportion to the population of urban districts? Definetly. I can imagine that if the rural districts were made proportionately to the same population as the urban ones, there would be a lot less of them.
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Draignean

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Re: AmeriPol: Congress attempts to cross streams while working on tax 'reform'
« Reply #14680 on: November 15, 2017, 04:51:07 pm »

According to this, the guns he had were two homemade semi-autos (doesn't say how they were made, wouldn't surprise me if they were 3D printed) and two registered under someone else. http://thehill.com/homenews/360542-california-shooter-was-barred-from-owning-guns-report

It would be stunning if they were 3d printed. IIRC, the printers that can do that are prohibitively expensive for the general market.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol: Congress attempts to cross streams while working on tax 'reform'
« Reply #14681 on: November 15, 2017, 04:54:44 pm »

Still, I wonder what they mean by homemade here since they don't specify, like made from scratch (which is what I took it to mean) or DIY modified.
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RedKing

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Re: AmeriPol: Congress attempts to cross streams while working on tax 'reform'
« Reply #14682 on: November 15, 2017, 05:00:35 pm »

Do you mean technologically, development wise, or ideologically?
Yes?

One of the things I'm thinking of is how ethnically and culturally monolithic those areas are (with certain exceptions -- ever-growing Hispanic populations, especially in the rural South, and poor African-American communities), and also the lack of a socialized safety net. Rural Europeans may be more conservative than their urban brethren, but they haven't been left to fend for themselves by their governments (have they?).

Rural China is largely being abandoned by Beijing, because it's too expensive and cumbersome to maintain services across a huge swath of land. Hence their massive urbanization plan (which may be jettisoned or at least curtailed by Xi, but that's a topic for Eastasia thread).

Rural America is steadily dying as well, though it's at the hand of the free market rather than any kind of planned obsolescence.



@Rolan: Yeah, I know. But honestly, I'm starting to think we deserve it. Even those urban areas have plenty of people who are anything but progressive.
Alabama and Mississippi suffer from an even more pronounced lack of cities. Birmingham and Montgomery are the two largest in AL, and they're each barely 200,000 people. Mississippi is even worse, with only one city of 100,000 or more (Jackson). And having been to Jackson -- yeah. I thought I came in on the "bad side of town" and found that no, that's pretty much the whole city.

I'm not saying these things as some ivory-tower big-city liberal who doesn't know the "real" country. I was born in rural Iowa, I grew up in rural NC. Hell, I *live* in rural NC (although very close to the bright blue liberal colony that is Hillsborough). I've been something of an apologist for the rural South for most of my life. But I've come to the conclusion that no, these are not "good people, just set in their ways".

When you have people that will openly tell you that allegations of sexual misconduct with a minor makes them *more* likely to vote for someone, that's not a good person, no matter what their underlying reasoning is.

If they believe it happened, but don't care because "people did that in the Bible" -- not a good person.
If they believe it happened, but don't care because "we can't have a Democrat win" -- not a good person.
If they're not sure whether it's true or not, but don't care because "we can't have a Democrat win" -- not a good person.
If they're not sure whether it's true or not, but think "God has forgiven him" (I've read an interview where a woman espoused that opinion) -- not a good person.
If they refuse to believe it because "FAKE NEWS" -- not a good person.
If they're not sure whether it happened, but don't care because "Haw haw, my vote'll piss off a liberal" -- not a good person.

@Dunamsideos -- Ask me if I give a shit. No really, ask me.
I've probably spent more years than you've been alive making the same argument that you're making -- that the South/rural people/conservative/etc. are unfairly maligned. And yet, every year I've watched them *become* more malign. More eager to do stupid and self-destructive things just to score an ideological point. More willing to excuse the inexcusable, as long as its in the service of "their side". More consumed with conspiracy theories and beliefs in a world that increasingly looks totally unlike the reality I live in.


At some point, I gave up making excuses for them.

I used to be a proud Southerner. I'm not anymore. (I'm still a proud North Carolinian, but if we continue electing the worst goddamn legislators in the United States, that's up for reassessment as well).

I used to be willing to overlook political differences with family members. I'm not anymore. My father and I haven't corresponded since shortly after the election, and I get the feeling that's a permanent state.

I used to think "Well, they mean well....". I don't anymore. I've seen too much evidence that no, they don't mean well at all.


So yeah...maybe I'm being tribal too. But I'm completely out of fucks to give about even-handedness and "fairness". I've seen those concepts shit on so many times by people who are basically bullies who hide behind the notion of compromise and bipartisanship when they're in the minority, and then turn around and act like petty tyrants when they're in power. FUCK THOSE PEOPLE. With a sharp stick. In the eye.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol: Congress attempts to cross streams while working on tax 'reform'
« Reply #14683 on: November 15, 2017, 05:07:57 pm »

Still, I wonder what they mean by homemade here since they don't specify, like made from scratch (which is what I took it to mean) or DIY modified.

There are very few ways to modify a manual-action firearm into a semi-automatic, so the only explanation for "homemade" is the "made from scratch" version. Given that you can make a functioning firearm with fairly basic machine tools (there's Middle Easterners making AK-47s in caves out of boxes of scraps that way, for example), that is the most probable explanation.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol: Congress attempts to cross streams while working on tax 'reform'
« Reply #14684 on: November 15, 2017, 05:14:36 pm »

That's what I assumed the homemade definition was, made from scratch or at least cobbled together from spare parts or scrap. It said the gun was a semi-auto though, not an automatic rifle like the AK-47.
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