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[NullForceOmega]

Probably several years, there is already an idiotic backlog of casework that would need to be reviewed before services could even be restarted.  There probably isn't a way for it to be anything other than hugely disruptive without compounding the issue further.

Yah, Reagan did the last blanket amnesty in 1986, and it was total to the best of my recollection.

[redwallzyl]

Ya, I don't really see a problem with keeping them and just dealing with a normal rate of criminals or a lower one like we normally deal with them. Its not like we seem to care about locking up like 1% of our entire population already. I fail to see how your run of the mill average criminal ratio hurts us.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

One cannot pause immigration anymore than they can pause the economy. Any plan that requires such a step isn't operating in the confines of reality.

[NullForceOmega]

Then provide an alternative solution MSH.  By all means, the floor is yours.

[smjjames]

Probably several years, there is already an idiotic backlog of casework that would need to be reviewed before services could even be restarted.  There probably isn't a way for it to be anything other than hugely disruptive without compounding the issue further.

Yah, Reagan did the last blanket amnesty in 1986, and it was total to the best of my recollection.

Sounds like a blanket amnesty paired with reform and restructuring of the legal immigration system is the only way out.

I'm gonna take a wild guess that Reagan did that because there was a massive backlog in the immigration system back then? Sounds like dealing with the symptom rather than the disease..

I don't see how a complete reform and restructuring of the legal immigration system would work in this political climate, what with the extremes on both sides.

[redwallzyl]

I'm not MSH but I would come up with a plan before just shutting immigration down. Remember when Trump tried to do that and it was massively damaging for no gain? he also almost certainly never intended to actually ever start if up again.

[NullForceOmega]

Yes, to the best of my knowledge (which is not comprehensive) Reagan inherited such a tremendous backlog he just threw up his hands and said, "Welp, nothin' for it, just have to let 'em all in."

I'm not suggesting having no plan regarding restructuring the immigration services, but you'd have to do SOMETHING to deal with the truly unholy backlog of cases. 

smjjames: I agree, with the current climate there is no way to fix this, so all we are going to get from either side is band-aids.

[Egan_BW]

If you'd really rather split up a whole bunch of families for the sake of not getting rid of a comparatively tiny number of criminals, than I can only say that your priorities are All Fucked Up.

[smjjames]

I don't know the exact state of the funding and modernization of the agency(ies) that deal with the legal immigration proccess, but giving them more funding and modernizing to digital would go a ways towards helping.

Since I don't see a whole scale reforming and structuring happening in this political climate, I'm not sure what partial stuff could be done with the system, like work on which specific part or whatever.

[NullForceOmega]

Egan, did you even read my previous posts on this?  They are being actively exploited without legal protections to the point of death.  Splitting up some families for the sake of healing  the rotting ulcer that is the underclass of undocumented worker abuse is worth it, and if we can ensure that violent criminals are also removed then that is a bonus.

smjjames: simple, we don't fund ICE.  The agency is required to provide its own funding through fees, they receive a few tens of thousands of dollars yearly for administrative costs.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Then provide an alternative solution MSH.  By all means, the floor is yours.

Well then:

Full funding and temp hires for USCIS.

Relegate HomeSec to a contributory instead of oversight role, consider establishment of a full department for immigration and emigration (it needs it).

Match yearly immigration quota to percentile growth or shrinkage of immigrants arriving.

End the war on drugs and offer Mexico the assistance of the armed forces in breaking cartel and jackal activity.

Offer green cards to Canadians who graduate college in the United States.

Amnesty for existing illegal immigrants who have not committed a violent crime.

Prosecute employers of illegal immigrants and have them charged back-pay.

Expand green card lottery to make engagement with the system plausible.


Engagement is the ultimate goal here. Fact is, no system stops border crossings based on harshness. People pass the NK-China border as well as the NK-SK border illegally all the time. People passed the Berlin wall. So even if someone went all the way to the extremist conclusion that some politicians might actually support and started shooting at people approaching the border, it would still fail. There isn't enough manpower available to genuinely guard the US-Mexico border, and the costs would be too great in money and lives.

Rather, illegal immigration is prevented by compelling compliance to the system. This requires a system which people consider reasonably passable, which the current system really is not. And so they sacrifice other things to get inside the US and then hide for the rest of their lives.

None of this would be happening if not for funding-phobic hardasses letting USCIS go dysfunctional.

[Lord Shonus]

Alternatively, we could end illegal Mexican immigration forever by annexing Mexico. That's only slightly less feasible than mass deportation, and probably more humane.

[smjjames]

We'd have to annex Canada at the same time and make the grand United States of North America.

[NullForceOmega]

Then provide an alternative solution MSH.  By all means, the floor is yours.

Well then:

Full funding and temp hires for USCIS.

Relegate HomeSec to a contributory instead of oversight role, consider establishment of a full department for immigration and emigration (it needs it).

Match yearly immigration quota to percentile growth or shrinkage of immigrants arriving.

Shonus: intriguingly I agree with you and smjjames, but I wouldn't stop there, I'd annex Japan too.  (Half-joking.)

End the war on drugs and offer Mexico the assistance of the armed forces in breaking cartel and jackal activity.

Offer green cards to Canadians who graduate college in the United States.

Amnesty for existing illegal immigrants who have not committed a violent crime.

Prosecute employers of illegal immigrants and have them charged back-pay.

Expand green card lottery to make engagement with the system plausible.


Engagement is the ultimate goal here. Fact is, no system stops border crossings based on harshness. People pass the NK-China border as well as the NK-SK border illegally all the time. People passed the Berlin wall. So even if someone went all the way to the extremist conclusion that some politicians might actually support and started shooting and people approaching the border, it would still fail. There isn't enough manpower available to genuinely guard the US-Mexico border, and the costs would be to great in money and lives.

Rather, illegal immigration is prevented by compelling compliance to the system. This requires a system which people consider reasonably passable, which the current system really is not. And so they sacrifice other things to get inside the US and then hide for the rest of their lives.

None of this would be happening if not for funding-phobic hardasses letting USCIS go dysfunctional.

Okay, nice points, I agree with most of this, except the one I have made glaringly apparent.  This point is the one that makes this unworkable.  There are not enough personnel, courts, lawyers, nor is there money to pay for them all.  This is why I say we would have to stop all attempts at legal immigration, if we don't take the time and devote the resources to this point then we will just be perpetuating the current state of affairs.

There is no question that freezing immigration would cause no end of problems, but I can see no other way to actually fix this without doing so.

Like I said, no good solutions.

Edit: Shonus: I agree, but I don't think we should stop there, let's annex Japan too.

[Egan_BW]

Egan, did you even read my previous posts on this?  They are being actively exploited without legal protections to the point of death.  Splitting up some families for the sake of healing  the rotting ulcer that is the underclass of undocumented worker abuse is worth it, and if we can ensure that violent criminals are also removed then that is a bonus.

smjjames: simple, we don't fund ICE.  The agency is required to provide its own funding through fees, they receive a few tens of thousands of dollars yearly for administrative costs.

I read one in which the criminal thing was the argument you used, and you didn't mention exploitation in that post. I honestly don't care for reading and keeping track of every damn little thing said in this thread.

I'm going to be completely honest here, and I'm really not trolling or trying to be shocking.

I do not give a damn if we have to split up families.  The problem must be resolved and we do not have good ways to resolve it.  Deportation is extreme but so are the other solutions.  Blanket amnesty leaves us with dangerous criminals that we have to deal with.  Trying to process all of them is completely infeasible, the money to do it is just not obtainable, and the sheer amount of manhours necessary is ludicrous.  There are no good solutions to this problem.

What I mean is, if you think I'm misrepresenting you, your above post already misrepresented your position perfectly fine.