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[Trekkin]

They see it as unconstitutional because Obama did it through executive order rather than do it legislatively.

This is a good point. In the abstract, executive orders have been overused in ways that arguably inflate the power of the executive branch beyond that intended in the Constitution, and therefore in the abstract those executive orders should be either rescinded or replaced with legislation as soon as possible.

I'm not defending the Republican effort to stop DACA rather than legislate it. There's no argument I can see for doing so rooted in anything other than the worst impulses of the worst of us and transparent efforts to appeal to them. It's just that the argument in favor of legislation coming from the legislative branch is a valid one, albeit one used disingenuously here.

[EnigmaticHat]

Immigration reform will be contentous for sure, and on top of that, the Republicans have to deal with their own internal divisions. And yes the math is bigger in the house, they'd need 24 or so Republicans to join the Democrats if every Democrat joined.

Eh. One way or another states have already started piling on with a promise to bury attempts to nix DACA in litigation. Have to see how it falls out.

Really one of those things that hammers in exactly what trump and the GOP are after, though. Just about everything we have says doing that would lose jobs for everyone. Net economic loss, on top of the fucking massive moral failure. So yet again, every piece of shit they squeeze out their mouths about it being anything but racism and/or xenophobia is evidenced to be a complete fucking lie.

They see it as unconstitutional because Obama did it through executive order rather than do it legislatively.

If only we had some kind of system for verifying if a given electoral order was constitutional or not.  Some kind of, branch of government.  With a history of caring about both separation of powers and state's rights...  Nahhhhhhhh that's crazy talk.  Best way to protect state's rights is to attempt to do another branch's job for them while not doing your own.

Seriously tho, its stupid that Trump is trying to use the DACA as a threat.  A competent president would tell congress what he wants and then work to make the base accept that vision.  Instead he's holding "lol you illegal now" over the heads of Republican congressional officials... like they care.  Shutting down the government works as a threat because congress is part of the government.  Congresspeople are not immigrants in a state of legal flux, they face no direct consequences if the DACA is repealed and for some of them their base would actually like that.

IMO a repeal would be horrible.  Putting aside whether it should have been allowed in the first place, it was, and its ridiculous to yank people's chains as to their legal status.  Especially since there were no real negative consequences of DACA passing and from what I understand many of the protected individuals didn't even know they were illegal immigrants until years after entering the country.  Wall Street Journal ran this piece about DACA med students.  Can you imagine going to med school, presumably racking up student debt and then spending up to 6 months unsure if you'll even be allowed to practice medicine?  Or even if you could be targeted by immigration officials?  Do the thing or don't do the thing, leaving us all in this constant state of suspense is bad for everyone's health.  Repeal and replace, fire and fury, isn't there enough uncertainty going on.  Its like Trump is trying to give everyone in the entire country an ulcer.

[smjjames]

Not to mention that we're in this situation precisely because of past immigration legislation. It's the result of unintended consequences from whatever past legislation tried to deal with.

We got ourselves in this situation, now we have to deal with it because ignoring it will just make the problem worse as more and more of those will start families and have kids, who are US citizens.

[Trekkin]

Do the thing or don't do the thing, leaving us all in this constant state of suspense is bad for everyone's health.  Repeal and replace, fire and fury, isn't there enough uncertainty going on.  Its like Trump is trying to give everyone in the entire country an ulcer.

That is exactly what he does, though. That is literally the cornerstone of his strategy, such as it is. Remember "I will keep you in suspense" from the debates?

Suspense drives up ratings and makes people pay attention to him, and he can't tell the difference between good attention and bad attention.

[smjjames]

@enigmatichat: Except that he isn't a competent politician and isn't well versed in the various ways to work on legislation. It's a dumb tactic, yes, but it's also one that someone who doesn't know how to work the politics side might do.

As far as the base goes with DACA, it's harder to make a case of pandering to his base since a majority of Trump voters approve of DACA in some way. It sounds more like he got frustrated over the decision and decided to make it look like he was washing his hands of it by tossing the decision to Congress.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

His tweet implied he wanted Congress to pass DACA, which implies that he is willing to pass DACA. Or Trump is an idiot, we can never rule that out.

Very unfortunate time to do this, with budget negotiations impending. I think Trump's strategy is to fuck with Congress until they submit to his desires, but I don't think that'll be the actual outcome, doubly so after the healthcare debacles. Pretty sure they'll just keep screaming and stabbing until the clock runs out.

[misko27]

while Congress comes to grips with the responsibility Trump just dumped on their shoulders (and to make it even worse, he doesn't just want DACA, he wants significant immigration reform), they've got a lot of other stuff on their plate: Hurricane Harvey aid and FEMA funding (made even more urgent, somehow, by the merciless approach of Irma), the always inexplicably unpopular debt-ceiling, the shutdown fight (god, imagine shutting down during disaster relief), etc. And some Republicans are unwilling to let go of repealing the ACA, and this month is the very last chance they have (until next year, but that's an election year). And of course, the wall could always rear its ugly head again after sort of quieting down for a while. It's gotten so bad that the Republican leadership may have to rely on Trump endorsing their proposals to make it politically palatable to the base, but as always, he is a wildcard and might demand something like funding for the wall.

And in addition to all of this, this is when we supposedly start Tax Reform. Good luck with that dude. They've already downgraded their ambitions from "reform" to "tax cuts", but even that may be difficult (especially when bundled with the debt-ceiling: "Hey, cutting taxes will increase revenue! Right?").

[Aklyon]

And some Republicans are unwilling to let go of repealing the ACA, and this month is the very last chance they have (until next year, but that's an election year).

If they try to pull this shit yet again in the middle of far more important things, they should be banned from DC for blatant stupidity.

More realistically, I hope they can at least hold their shit together long enough to pass some approximation of functionality for all the important bits.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Their filibuster vote for healthcare this year is gone, it's a non-starter. If they did do it, it would just be a part of the screaming and stabbing agenda.

[Folly]

Hillary blames Sanders for her election loss.
Really, Hillary? Trump had to compete with like 50 other Republican candidates, and you're bitching about the one Democrat who ran against you? People don't hate you because of Sanders. This shit right here is why people hate you.

Meanwhile...
Trump finally gets bigger crowds than Obama.

[nenjin]

Man, and people accuse Trump of having an ego and it causing him to make unwise decisions. Does she really think this is going to make her look better, make her loss look less like the fault of he campaign and her (preexisting) public opinion? Maybe she only pays attention to polls but I clearly remember more than one democrat going "Oh hell no, not in a million years" when she threw her hat in to the ring.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Democrat voters have been going "oh hell no" since before she ran against Obama, all the way back to her moving from First Lady to the Senate.

[Dunamisdeos]

I still believe that literally any other Democratic option could have beat Trump.

[hector13]

Democrat voters have been going "oh hell no" since before she ran against Obama, all the way back to her moving from First Lady to the Senate.

But they voted for her as a candidate did they not?

Perhaps aided by the heavy support from the DNC higher-ups, but still...

[Aklyon]

Democrat voters have been going "oh hell no" since before she ran against Obama, all the way back to her moving from First Lady to the Senate.

But they voted for her as a candidate did they not?

Perhaps aided by the heavy support from the DNC higher-ups, but still...

They voted for her because they were given her as the candidate.