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[SalmonGod]

A lot of these riots? There is no bully.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Who is your bully? What is his name? What did he do? How did he do it?

I'm only aware of two sources of riots in recent times -- in response to minority killings by police and at major political events.

On minority killings by police -- does this really need explanation? 
On major political events -- the bullying is political repression of interests that are counter to establishments of power, and usually in connection with those establishments of power forcing externalities onto disempowered demographics and communities.

Naw, I mean more that if you read what the Rioters want... It typically isn't anything that will fix the problem. Often it is just token responses that will make them feel better such as firing a police chief who, so far, has an unsubstantiated link to the crime... Or just firing the mayor.

That's a completely different issue from your question

Or they create a much bigger problem then the single event. One cannot blame ALL problems on a single thing. If someone spits gum onto the sidewalk you cannot create a riot where you blame him for all street trash.

Completely lost me here.

[smjjames]

I seem to be parsing that as neo complaining about riots about, say, police activity, for the participants not marching up and burning down the police station(s) rather than other stuff. Or the city hall or somethin'.

That might be salmongod's parsing? It's also possible that neonivek and salmongod are misinterpreting each other a bit.

I get the point about tension and breaking point behind riots, riots are rarely preplanned (though I guess you'd call a preplanned riot a rebellion).

@salmongod: I think everybody is in agreement here with the riots caused by minority killings by police.

[Frumple]

Nah, a preplanned riot is just kinda' a preplanned riot, far as I'm aware. Rebellion takes more taking over as opposed to breaking shit someone that can fix things cares about until they get off their ass for things they don't.

[smjjames]

A lot of these riots? There is no bully.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Who is your bully? What is his name? What did he do? How did he do it?

I'm only aware of two sources of riots in recent times -- in response to minority killings by police and at major political events.

On minority killings by police -- does this really need explanation? 
On major political events -- the bullying is political repression of interests that are counter to establishments of power, and usually in connection with those establishments of power forcing externalities onto disempowered demographics and communities.

Naw, I mean more that if you read what the Rioters want... It typically isn't anything that will fix the problem. Often it is just token responses that will make them feel better such as firing a police chief who, so far, has an unsubstantiated link to the crime... Or just firing the mayor.

That's a completely different issue from your question

Or they create a much bigger problem then the single event. One cannot blame ALL problems on a single thing. If someone spits gum onto the sidewalk you cannot create a riot where you blame him for all street trash.

Completely lost me here.

Yeah, there's definetly some misunderstanding/misinterpreting going on here. Not sure on what specific though.

edit: I think the last one might be attacking the oversimplified 'blame it on the liberals/conservatives!' type of blame. Which tends to happen when things are politically charged.

[Neonivek]

Edit: Ok I cut down what I said here... because I feel like my longer post isn't helpful.

I think everybody is in agreement here with the riots caused by minority killings by police

I am not actually. I find these to be highly unhelpful, are vigilantism, and in rare cases cause MORE deaths than the actual event.

A proper response needs to KNOW what to do, it needs to respect rule of law, and it needs to be measured... it also needs to be directed at the right people.

I don't believe in Riots. I do believe that riots are just a natural result of tension, but acceptance isn't the same as saying it is acceptable.

[smjjames]

Edit: Ok I cut down what I said here... because I feel like my longer post isn't helpful.

I think everybody is in agreement here with the riots caused by minority killings by police

I am not actually. I find these to be highly unhelpful, are vigilantism, and in rare cases cause MORE deaths than the actual event.

A proper response needs to KNOW what to do, it needs to respect rule of law, and it needs to be measured.

I don't believe in Riots. I do believe that riots are just a natural result of tension, but acceptance isn't the same as saying it is acceptable.

I meant agreement on the cause of the riots. I'm not for rioting either, it just screws things for everybody, both the rioters and everybody else.

[SalmonGod]

in rare cases cause MORE deaths than the actual event.

Keeping in mind that this discussion is in dispute over the narrative that has been building up around leftism RECENTLY, so I am only thinking in terms of RECENT events here.

I have to ask again

... what??

[smjjames]

in rare cases cause MORE deaths than the actual event.

Keeping in mind that this discussion is in dispute over the narrative that has been building up around leftism RECENTLY, so I am only thinking in terms of RECENT events here.

I have to ask again

... what??

Might be in the context of past riots years to decades ago, since neo has mentioned those rather than more recent ones.

edit: Wait, are we restricting it to America, or any riot around the world? Because Venezuela.

[Frumple]

... probably america, considering the thread and current topic.

[SalmonGod]

I'm thinking mostly in terms of United States.

[Neonivek]

>_< well this is interesting info.

Apparently the riots against police shootings have had the opposite effect people wanted to.

not only did people do more crime after these riots, but the police (due to harassment) scaled back their outreach (improper term for what they meant) which means that more crimes occurred while the police were away.

Assuming this article is correct. It is quite interesting to be honest.

But let me see... Fergison Riots have lead to a few deaths. Though none during the actual riots, just in result of the riots.

[Neonivek]

Consider, perhaps, linking to said article.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/419337/baltimore-ferguson-riots-causing-crime-increase-michael-barone

Don't know why, people are just going to say it is untrue xD

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11242108/Ferguson-timeline-of-events-since-Michael-Browns-death.html

[smjjames]

I know salmongod meant the US, mostly I was wondering if neonivek was using stuff outside the US as he used one from Canada.

I'm likely a bit confused at neonivek as well.

>_< well this is interesting info.

Apparently the riots against police shootings have had the opposite effect people wanted to.

not only did people do more crime after these riots, but the police (due to harassment) scaled back their outreach which means that more crimes occurred while the police were away.

Assuming this article is correct. It is quite interesting to be honest.

But let me see... Fergison Riots have lead to a few deaths. Though none during the actual riots, just in result of the riots.

Link to article? Also, I think there was one person who had a heart attack at one point, there was some guy who shot at protestors (did they ever catch that person?), and there was that completely unrelated bodt in a truck which was near the protests, but had nothing to do with the protests themselves.

edit: ninja'd on article request

[SalmonGod]

>_< well this is interesting info.

Apparently the riots against police shootings have had the opposite effect people wanted to.

not only did people do more crime after these riots, but the police (due to harassment) scaled back their outreach (improper term for what they meant) which means that more crimes occurred while the police were away.

Assuming this article is correct. It is quite interesting to be honest.

But let me see... Fergison Riots have lead to a few deaths. Though none during the actual riots, just in result of the riots.

Ok.  Are you approaching this statement

in rare cases cause MORE deaths than the actual event.

from the assertion that the riots were sparked by a single event?  Because you do know there's a shitload more behind the Ferguson riots, and almost all similar, than the police killing a single person, right?

[Neonivek]

from the assertion that the riots were sparked by a single event?  Because you do know there's a shitload more behind the Ferguson riots, and almost all similar, than the police killing a single person, right?

And in my magic hand I put in one police shooting, and pull out all the hate in the world.

But yeah it was sparked by a single event, but the tension was building for a very long time before that.

 

Because you do know there's a shitload more behind the Ferguson riots, and almost all similar, than the police killing a single person, right?

And what is the point here exactly?

I don't admonish riots. I don't admonish bad solutions to bad problems. I don't admonish bad measurements to bad situations. I don't admonish the disregard of criticism.