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[Dunamisdeos]

You do realize the extent that the NK does their propoganda and brainwashing of citizens? Stockholm syndrome would be a closer analogy than 'a drink-the-kool-aid-type'. That'll be a longer term issue though.

The short-term fate would still be a concern though since you'd have the prospect of refugees fleeing the fighting (which is probably China's #1 fear over a NK collapse) and everything else associated from a war zone.

Yeah bad analogy, I guess. To be clear, I'd be concerned with them murdering as many of their own citizens as possible before we were able to take over, or convincing them to commit suicide. Though I do hear plenty of stories about how a lot of the populace is 100% aware of the fabricated nature of the state they live in.

[redwallzyl]

Considering how bad a shape their infrastructure and food production is in i imagine that any kind of war would immediately trigger widespread starvation.

[sluissa]

Considering how bad a shape their infrastructure and food production is in i imagine that any kind of war would immediately trigger widespread starvation.

Unless China props them up like they usually do. I think a lot will depend on how it's framed politically. China can't reasonably back someone who actually starts throwing nukes. But if the US fires first... even if it's non-nuclear... I'd expect China to back them... reluctantly and with plenty of conditions to remove that backing... but still North Korea has effectively been surviving a siege for 60 years. Give them more credit than that.

[misko27]

Its worth reminding ourselves (as I had to remind myself recently) that the only reason North Korea exists today is the PRC intervened last time. So there is, in fact, a precedent for them doing the exact same thing. And the North started the war the first time as well, so it's not impossible.

[smjjames]

Its worth reminding ourselves (as I had to remind myself recently) that the only reason North Korea exists today is the PRC intervened last time. So there is, in fact, a precedent for them doing the exact same thing. And the North started the war the first time as well, so it's not impossible.

From what I've read, the Chinese went in when US/international forces got too close to the Chinese-Korean border. Also, I thought a great part of not militarily intervening during the Cold War is because Soviet Russia would get scared and attack as well.

I could see them joining in not as enemies, but as part of some sort of joint force should things go south. China REALLY doesn't want to get into a fight with the US because of how interconnected it is economically with the US.

Either way, a renewed hot war on the Korean penninsula would be a big mess.

[ChairmanPoo]

China wants NK as a buffer state with Seoul and will most likely intervene if the US steps in.

 

[smjjames]

What form that intervention will take is kind of the question mark here because China isn't the same China of 60 years ago. Some things haven't changed, like the buffer zone thing, but there are other factors that would come into play that wouldn't have 60 years ago.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

China is likely to engage in mirror response unless NK actually attacks American-aligned forces, as this is the mechanism China uses to constrain NK's actions.

[SalmonGod]

The good thing is, all the Dem candidate in 2020 has to do is go, "Really? Do you REALLY want another four years of this?" They don't even have to have a platform.

Hopefully they don't run with the idea that they can get away with doing a shitty job, because the bar is set so low.

*sigh*... Come to think of it, I can see the populace begging "Please! we'll take your run-of-the-mill pro-corporate, militaristic, authoritarian establishment shill who throws a bone to social justice causes once in a while.  Anything but this shit!"

[Cthulhu]

I mean we barely didn't do that this time.

[misko27]

Really all that is needed to beat Trump in 2020 is simple: remind people that he's the establishment now. They are living in Trump's America. There is no benefit of the doubt left to give the man, and all the shakeups we were promised aren't happening. I read one of Trump's recent speeches (a very bizarre one in Long Island, which forced the local police department to put out a statement clarifying that they do not condone of mistreatment of prisoners) where he has this curious description of coming in "like a movie" and "liberating towns" from gangs, "even here long island." That liberation being immigration services taking the immigrants away.  If you buy that, that sounds great, but if you actually live in a "liberated" town and it doesn't feel so damn liberated, it makes everything else he says look like hot air. At some point people will want to be able to see what Trump promised everyone.

If you do that they'll have the room to make a decent platform offering an alternative to what will be his various failures and how they would do better. 2018 will presumably be a dry run for that.

btw i'm really not joking, that's actually how he described it:

At another point, Mr. Trump painted a cinematic portrait of freeing a shackled United States. “One by one, we’re liberating our American towns,” Mr. Trump said of the work to remove undocumented immigrants.

“Can you believe that I’m saying that? I’m talking about liberating our towns. Like you’d see in a movie,” Mr. Trump continued. “They’re liberating the town. Like in the old Wild West, right? We’re liberating our towns. I never thought I’d be standing up here talking about liberating towns on Long Island where I grew up. But that’s what you’re doing.”

[nenjin]

This is the same guy who told Dutuerte he's doing a "great job" with the drug problem. Comforting to know Generalisimo Donalde looks up to the guy who has killed over 2,000 people in the pursuit of justice.

[smjjames]

While Trump did say he'd shake things up, he didn't really say how it'd happen or what such a shakeup would look like.

He may think that leaving positions unfilled counts as a 'shakeup', but that's not how you do it.

Also, he grew up in Queens (or was it the Bronx? maybe that's Schumer), not Long Island. Though I guess he might just be seeing Long Island as 'part of New York' or 'part of the locale that I grew up in'.

[Neonivek]

I had no idea illegal immigrants are holding up small towns and taking them over...

Why didn't any of you tell me this?

[Starver]

Becauze ve haff nott ze vish off yuh zu varnink havven...


_{(I can't do mock Latin-American that well. Nor mock Germanic, probably, but I dredged up my best recollection of Victor/Eagle/Battle comic-book foreigner... That wasn't Gott In Himmel, Achtung Englischer Schweine, Nein! Donner Und Blitzen or Vee Vill Get You Und Ihre Spitfire, Yohnny Red!)}

^{((For future readers, my intended meaning was that I don't trust myself to do a Latino 'impression', so I was aiming at portraying a German one, yet still missing. Not worth correcting those who have already read it as otherwise, in another post, but I'll leave this for the record, to illustrate my literate ineptitude in meaning-conveyance... Or else I just missed the sarcasm by others...  ))}