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[RedKing]

If I read the RAND study right, their calculation was that between 29 and 190 soldiers would seek some form of transition per year. Cost would depend on the specific type of treatment, but on their high-end number, it's working out to about $44,000/each on average. Obviously, some would be cheaper, some would be more expensive.

And lest someone say "Oh, but once they know it's paid for, all those freaks will come out of the closet and ask for it!", RAND looked at municipal and state systems where gender reassignment surgery was covered, and found on average, less than a 0.1% increase to their total medical care costs. So yeah....it's not a problem.

And again, given that the per-taxpayer cost is less than 1/100th of a penny? People who invoke a financial reason for opposing this can go fuck themselves. Just come clean and admit you're transphobic.

EDIT: And to clarify, the "admit you're transphobic" bit is not aimed at you, Neo. I get the feeling you're just playing devil's advocate here. But at some point, playing devil's advocate for really stupid arguments just drags you down with them.

[Sheb]

That is kind of the rub isn't it? If they are included they MUST be covered if they opt in.

YEAH AND THE COVERAGE OF THOSE THAT DO REQUIRE SURGERY IS A DROP IN THE BUCKET WHEN YOU AVERAGE ON ALL TRANS. IT'S LIKE SAYInG TO KICK ALL SMOKERSBECAUSE SOME WILL COST A LOT. THAT'S THE WAY HEALTHCARE WORK.

THE COST ARGUMENT IS PURE BS TO COVER A BLATANT POLITICAL MOVE. THE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THAT, OR SIMPLE MATH OR LOGIC FUCKING PISS ME OFF. ALSO WHY CAN'T YOU MANAGE TO STAY FUCKING COHERENT FOR TWO FUCKING POST IN A ROW.


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Normally I do not condone all-caps, but that was cathartic. Apologies to all readers apart from the intended recipient.

[Neonivek]

given that the per-taxpayer cost is less than 1/100th of a penny?

Taxes can all be summed up as death by a million cuts. You could justify ANYTHING under the umbrella that it doesn't affect the tax payer "That much".

Just come clean and admit you're transphobic

Right... Arguing that they don't want to front the bill makes them transphobic.

You know what... Trump just go through with it. I know you weren't going to be able to, but this is the opposition... "TRANSPHOBIA!"

THE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THAT

I understand it... I am suggesting people elevate their argument outside the whole "It isn't Thaaaaaaaat much more when you look at total spending".

I am not even against you.

[RedKing]

Not everything in society boils down to pure cost/benefit analysis.

When did you start snorting powdered copies of Atlas Shrugged?

[Neonivek]

Not everything in society boils down to pure cost/benefit analysis.

When did you start snorting powdered copies of Atlas Shrugged?

Why do you have this inherent assumption that Trans Soldiers cost a ridiculous amount compared to an ordinary soldier? I know you don't, but you seem to avoid that scenario.

Don't compare them to the whole, compare them individually and don't lump them with those not included.

[Sheb]

Why do you have this inherent assumption that Trans Soldiers cost a ridiculous amount compared to an ordinary soldier?

Are you arguing against yourself again, Neo?

[RedKing]

Not everything in society boils down to pure cost/benefit analysis.

When did you start snorting powdered copies of Atlas Shrugged?

Why do you have this inherent assumption that Trans Soldiers cost a ridiculous amount compared to an ordinary soldier?

Don't compare them to the whole, compare them individually and don't lump them with those not included.

......




......


Ok, which personality am I speaking to right now? 

You know what? Fuck this noise. I have more important things to do than play games or argue with the mentally ill.

[Neonivek]

Why do you have this inherent assumption that Trans Soldiers cost a ridiculous amount compared to an ordinary soldier?

Are you arguing against yourself again, Neo?

What side do you think I am on?

Trump is being ridiculous and the cost of individual soldiers is quite high as it is. If they are disruptive like he says then perhaps that information could be useful, information I doubt he has.

The Surgery is VERY expensive but it is all at once so you can spread it out across their lifetime of service (Sure they could be retired early from injury... But injuries cost 2-million to the military)... You can also do what some countries do and limit what is and isn't provided and so if they want the full package they might have to pay more out of their own pocket.

I just don't think comparing the cost of the surgery to the TOTAL medical costs of the military (or of one procedure spread around 2 million people) is a apt comparison and just screams of the same selling tactic that your local McDonalds uses to make you upsize. Especially since that isn't even the counter argument people who are FOR this ban would make.

[Frumple]

Did... anyone actually compare the costs of a single procedure to the total military budget? Like, I've been skimming a bit 'cause shit's getting weird, but I didn't notice that come up.

[Baffler]

Actually no, that's an enormous amount of money required to integrate such a small number of soldiers. They won't take me because I have a particular disease (and wouldn't take my brothers who don't have it solely because of a family history of that disease either) because of the excessive costs of treating it relative to the benefit of recruiting, and there are typically no symptoms beyond high blood pressure until someone's in their 30's or even 40's. There is no fundamental difference here. Transgender people require expensive treatments even if they don't choose to actually seek reassignment surgery, as that link says, and the military can easily just find someone who's in good mental and physical health rather than end up on the hook for paying for extensive medical care through the VA or anything else.

[Lord Shonus]

Ignoring this nonsensical derail, it looks like Trump has little support for this ban. Of the Republican Senators that have expressed an opinion of it (beyond "How can I tell you anything? I heard about it when you reported it."), only two (David Perdue of Georgia and James Inhofe of Oklahoma) have expressed any positivity, with two (Rob Portman of Ohio and Deb Fischer of Nebraska) stating that they want to research more before expressing an opinion, and nine condemning it. 8 have avoided expressing any opinion.

[Frumple]

Snip

which is fine if that's your argument, I guess, but the answer there is to just not cover the treatment with the VA. Not kick out or block soldiers who are able and willing to deal with whatever on that side of things if it means they can serve in their country's military.

Interestingly enough, from what I've skimmed off the shitshow that's basically what was being sought (not covering reassignment surgery, maybe not hormone treatment, forget details) before someone made the mistake of feeding it to trump so we all get hit by whatever he sent flying out his ass.

[Starver]

Did... anyone actually compare the costs of a single procedure to the total military budget? Like, I've been skimming a bit 'cause shit's getting weird, but I didn't notice that come up.

Something similar in nature, as satire...

[smjjames]

Looks like Trump didn't do that ban on transgender troops as some sort of decision based on talks with Generals and stuff (who were caught offguard, hinting that they didn't talk about it), it was to save funding for the border wall. Only problem was that the House GOP never wanted to expel transgender from the military, just stop payment for gender change surgeries.

I wonder how the request was worded because somehow Trump apparently interpreted it as 'fire all transgender', or he thought that was the only way to do it.

edit: It's also likely to get tied up in the courts.

[Baffler]

Snip

which is fine if that's your argument, I guess, but the answer there is to just not cover the treatment with the VA. Not kick out or block soldiers who are able and willing to deal with whatever on that side of things if it means they can serve in their country's military.

Interestingly enough, from what I've skimmed off the shitshow that's basically what was being sought (not covering reassignment surgery, maybe not hormone treatment, forget details) before someone made the mistake of feeding it to trump so we all get hit by whatever he sent flying out his ass.

That still leaves them on the hook for psych though. Nearly half of transgender people develop an anxious or depressive disorder, and 40% attempt suicide at least once. Those problems don't go away even after reassignment and can't exactly be fixed like a broken leg either, and veterans already have elevated rates of those same problems. If they don't think it's worth it it's not really offensive (or surprising) in my opinion.