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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4226984 times)

Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #870 on: February 04, 2017, 06:59:57 am »

I'm going to post it again, I'm seriously pissed about what you guys just did to the former PM of Norway, because he went to Iran to speak at a human rights conference. It's third-world dictatorship level treatment. You just don't detain foreign heads of state (even if former) and question them like criminals for an hour.

And this is what I mean the times I've talked about how thin the line is between "normal operating procedures" and fascism. There you have people blindly "just following orders" in the system. In a system where such a thing was literally unthinkable two frikking weeks ago. That's how quickly it can unravel and you end up with people "just following orders" as they lock up innocent people, based on arbitrary rules.

If a former Prime Minister of a NATO TREATY MEMBER gets treated like that, how do we suppose people without that advantage are going to be treated. This guy ran a country with a formal alliance treaty with the USA, now they're treating him like a dogshit criminal. And that's how normal business works now, apparently.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 07:07:17 am by Reelya »
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Sergarr

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #871 on: February 04, 2017, 07:07:13 am »

Since when were you under the impression that USA is not a third-world dictatorship under a thin veneer of democracy? :P

Here's a new hit from Donald Trump Twitter: "We must keep "evil" out of our country!"
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Max™

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #872 on: February 04, 2017, 07:09:54 am »

I think the only way that would be more baffling is if it was: We must keep evil out of our "country"!
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birdy51

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #873 on: February 04, 2017, 07:22:02 am »

Sweet Jesus.

I'm going to post it again, I'm seriously pissed about what you guys just did to the former PM of Norway, because he went to Iran to speak at a human rights conference. It's third-world dictatorship level treatment. You just don't detain foreign heads of state (even if former) and question them like criminals for an hour.

And this is what I mean the times I've talked about how thin the line is between "normal operating procedures" and fascism. There you have people blindly "just following orders" in the system. In a system where such a thing was literally unthinkable two frikking weeks ago. That's how quickly it can unravel and you end up with people "just following orders" as they lock up innocent people, based on arbitrary rules.

If a former Prime Minister of a NATO TREATY MEMBER gets treated like that, how do we suppose people without that advantage are going to be treated. This guy ran a country with a formal alliance treaty with the USA, now they're treating him like a dogshit criminal. And that's how normal business works now, apparently.

It's probably a moot point, but if it's any consolation I apologize on behalf of any sane citizen of the United States. What happened is unacceptable, so yes, please be pissed.

This is entirely and utterly absurd.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #874 on: February 04, 2017, 07:41:41 am »

The worst part is that right about now any serious administration would be in damage control and doing press conferences assuring foreign diplomats that they're not going to be locked up with terror suspects.

But no -_- we have Trump's Keeping out 'evil' tweet. And yeah -_- sad face is the new hyphen in this thread.

BTW: you know who they're claiming is responsible? Obama.
http://theweek.com/speedreads/677862/former-norwegian-prime-minister-detained-dulles-but-security-agents-said-not-blame-trump

Maybe ... but it does sound fucking unlikely that some law Obama created caused this problem literally 1 week after Trump's order. It's more likely that they've been ordered to toughen up all security and not to make any exceptions since Trump got in, even if the law in question existed under Obama. But it's extremely convenient if they can piggyback on older laws, because "interpretation" is a fine art that lets you get away with murder.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 07:48:30 am by Reelya »
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Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #875 on: February 04, 2017, 07:47:12 am »

Mansplaining is typically used by more aggressive feminist sects as a method of keeping men from the conversation. It shouldn't be taken seriously at all! Nor should it be considered part of mainstream feminism or really be allowed to enter feminism period.
Old but: ... Mansplaining isn't that? It's the assumption that happens that a woman doesn't know about something simply because it's not a "girl thing." Like physics, linguistics, comic book geekery, etc. :v Sometimes devolving into explaining the plot/premise of a show to one of the writers on that show. :v

Usually if someone wants to shut a man out of a feminist area, they say "You can't understand because you've not experienced it." Which can be a fair point but fails to take into account the ability for modern humans to communicate ideas to each other despite the impossibility of ever experiencing it. See also: Any fantasy or sci-fi book, the whole "You can experience the universe through a book!" idea.
Mansplaining is used in many ways:
  • Man: "I know all about blah, I know [WRONG INFO]! Blah, blah." Woman: "...I have a degree in blah, and what you said is entirely incor - " Man: "Blah blah blah blah!"
  • Man: "Women don't know what they want. I do."
  • Man: "Here, I have a theory about gender roles - " Woman: "That contradicts my theory! You're MANSPLAINING gender to me!"
  • Woman: "Blah blah." Man: "No... I don't think that's how it goes. It seems more like - " Woman: "MANSPLAIN!!!" Man: "But we're equally skilled in this, surely my professional opinion of the function - " Woman: "SPLAAAAAIN!!!!!"

Needless to say, I agree with half and disagree with half. But I actually prefer "condesplain," because women can do it to men too; it might be less common, but we don't call heart disease "man disease" just because more men get it.

This whole disagreement over "mansplaining" is just a new iteration of a problem with feminism. There are some feminists who are bad, they're... not SJW, that's an enemy term. Not radical, I'm radical myself. Not aggressive, that's not quite it. Either "corrupt" or "dogmatic". To illustrate the problem, a story:

Quote from: my dad, paraphrased
I had a disagreement with a female colleague. Because I rated her poorly in her review, she accused me of sexism. But she really did do poorly.

When a woman uses the terminology of feminism to deflect all criticism, that's corruption. When a feminist misuses a term to exclude all men from a conversation (that they could contribute too; not a discussion on subjective menstruation or something), that's exclusive dogmatism or something. These feminists may be a minority, or they might not, but they are an issue for feminism. (And I say this as a feminist myself.)

Sure seems to be straight forward and have a very specific set of circumstances doesn't it? Except when you look further and see how it is used. As well your own definition has a incredibly huge flaw doesn't it? It is a thought crime. Meaning that if someone says your mansplaining it means they are "reading your thoughts" and know you are only doing so because they are a woman.
...no? It's not a "thought crime," it's a speech crime. It's not "reading thoughts", it's observing condescending speech. (And "condesplain" instead of "mansplain" would solve the minor issue of "what if it's just an arsehole and not a bigot".)
Quote
As for "They say", remember that Mansplaining is a label or more pessimistically a insult. If they are trying to shut you out they don't do it through calm discourse... They want to shut you down and make it damn well obvious why. Well not to mention the whole "Thought Crime" aspect, so if you argue against it REMEMBER you are immediately a sexist... and when you are a sexist arguing that you are not only makes you a bigger sexist.
No... "mansplain" is also used to prevent or discourage men from condescendingly "teaching" women about things the women are experts on.

"Disagreeing with me makes you a sexist" is a problem, but it's not specific to "mansplaining".

Quote
It is like Mansplaining was created in response to that Tool Time episode where Alan is frustrated he cannot teach his wife basic house repair and dumbs down his jargon a ton, until the one woman in the room who actually knows home repair jumps in and makes him look like a total fool because she actually knows her stuff and finds his attitude disrespectful. She is also a beast who can bend bronze pipes with her freeken fingers!
Yes, it was created in response to a similar happening, except this one was real.
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The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
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Steelmagic

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #876 on: February 04, 2017, 07:47:28 am »

I mean, do they seriously expect people to believe that? Especially a man who was prime minister of a nation and has presumably been in and out of the US several times between 2015 and now.
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When i say "I'm no expert but..." It means "I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about but I'm going to try to sound like i do."

ChairmanPoo

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #877 on: February 04, 2017, 07:48:22 am »

    Woman: "SPLAAAAAIN!!!!!"[/li][/list]


    I CLAIM THIS THREAD IN THE NAME OF SPLAIN!

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    MetalSlimeHunt

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    Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
    « Reply #878 on: February 04, 2017, 07:50:22 am »

    We literally have a containment thread just for gender politics. Stop it! Make AmeriPol Great Again!
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    Quote from: Thomas Paine
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    Reelya

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    Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
    « Reply #879 on: February 04, 2017, 07:54:02 am »

    You're Metalsplaining again.

    But here's a good trick. Copy/quote the post here, shove it in Gender then put a redirect notice here. Then by some magic, when people respond they get teleported to the Gender thread.
    « Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 07:56:04 am by Reelya »
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    Sergarr

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    Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
    « Reply #880 on: February 04, 2017, 07:55:53 am »

    I mean, do they seriously expect people to believe that? Especially a man who was prime minister of a nation and has presumably been in and out of the US several times between 2015 and now.
    The demographic of Trump supporters probably intersects heavily with the demographic of people who believe that European country leaders import the "brown people" into Europe to increase their voter base and to replace the European culture.

    So I say, yes, they do.
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    Reelya

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    Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
    « Reply #881 on: February 04, 2017, 07:58:44 am »

    I'm waiting to see what the tourism and broader economic impacts of this will be.

    wierd

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    Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
    « Reply #882 on: February 04, 2017, 07:59:01 am »

    Personally,my one great and mighty hope is that this turns out SO HORRIFICALLY BADLY, that the US really, truly, and honestly DOES SOMETHING ABOUT ITS CULTURAL DISDAIN FOR ACTUAL INTELLECTUAL THOUGHT.
     
    I wont hold my breath though. Dunning-Krueger is ever so hard to bring to a stop.

    Reelya:
    For US tourism and economy, or world tourism and economy?

    US tourism: Already suffering from Bush era airport gropings and pornoscopic exams. Now will be on par with visiting North Korea.
    US Economy: Sanctions, sanctions everywhere! Trade wars! Default on huge international debts. Bad juju all around.

    World tourism: Might not be all that bad. Just ignore the US as a tourist destination. Kinda like how the USSR was in the 70s and 80s.
    World Economy: BUMPY, VERY BUMPY.  IMF had better switch to a new reserve currency, and SOON.
    « Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 08:02:42 am by wierd »
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    Reelya

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    Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
    « Reply #883 on: February 04, 2017, 08:06:44 am »

    BTW the Norwegian ex-PM did say in an interview that he'd previously traveled to America without issues after the Obama law already existed. The Trump administration really are low pieces of s---, even if a previous adiministration's law screwed over a respected foreign leader, you at least say something, apologize for it if it happened on your watch, not pretend it didn't happen and get your goons to blame the last guy. I mean, can you imagine if this happened under Obama and he tweeted
    "keeping out evil" rather than acknowlege it happened. That guy was here to see Trump speak at the National Prayer Breakfast. And him being detained is "not my problem" according to the administration.

    http://www.newschannel5.com/newsy/former-norwegian-prime-minister-detained-due-to-trumps-travel-ban

    wierd

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    Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
    « Reply #884 on: February 04, 2017, 08:11:03 am »

    Is it bad form to revisit "papers please", in light of these recent developments?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWvzPU2sgsM
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