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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4471390 times)

redwallzyl

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #510 on: February 01, 2017, 08:58:14 pm »

Given that I actually like my quality of life, I'd rather they not.

Hey you, the American people, voted for Trump. Thus you, the American people, are obligated to support him in all his endeavors.

Have some patriotism already :P (I am being slightly sarcastic here)
the majority didn't vote for him actually. and no we aren't.
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Hanslanda

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #511 on: February 01, 2017, 09:04:40 pm »

Given that I actually like my quality of life, I'd rather they not.

Hey you, the American people, voted for Trump. Thus you, the American people, are obligated to support him in all his endeavors.

Have some patriotism already :P (I am being slightly sarcastic here)


Fuck no. I did NOT vote for him. Individual votes mean nothing. I get the sarcasm, but it's seriously debilitating to meet Trump supporters EVERY DAY.
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Well, we could put two and two together and write a book: "The Shit that Hans and Max Did: You Won't Believe This Shit."
He's fucking with us.

Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #512 on: February 01, 2017, 09:05:05 pm »

Ok time for breaking my powers of making terrible things come true.

You know what I'd love? For the international community to just embargo the heck out of the USA in response to Trump.

It isn't going to happen due to how dependent most of the world is on the US economy, but it sure would be interesting to see Trump's "I can push anyone I want around" and "Please trump pee on us! we need your attention!" dynamic to be broken up.

The effects wouldn't be quite as bad as you'd think. e.g. say some country can't export to the USA. Well, there's now a surplus of goods that used to be bought by Americans. Exporters will try and sell them in other markets, lowering prices while the surpluses sort themselves out. The other importer nations will have an economic growth spurt as a result. Additionally, if other countries retaliate with tariffs against American goods, then America's competitors can in fact increase their market share for things the USA exports. So the loss of any one market will be mostly offset by the remaining 195 countries merely trading with each other: e.g. say Mexicans sell wheat to America, and import American tractors, they might end up selling the wheat in China and buying German tractors instead. Which might be bad overall for Mexico, but good for China and Germany, and there will be similar deals in which Mexico ends up as the winner. So there will be losses, but nowhere near the full value of the trade deal.

America will have the opposite effect. With a lack of imports, there will be acute shortages and price rises, and that can in fact cause runaway processes such as hoarding and hyperinflation - which is a self-sustaining process. As the price increases, people want to hoard a lot more to both avoid paying more later, and to profit on the black market, this then feeds into runaway increases. Creating an entire supply chain for the goods in question might take way too long to avoid that happening, if there's a big sudden drop in supply.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 09:18:25 pm by Reelya »
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #513 on: February 01, 2017, 09:11:03 pm »

Ok time for breaking my powers of making terrible things come true.

You know what I'd love? For the international community to just embargo the heck out of the USA in response to Trump.

It isn't going to happen due to how dependent most of the world is on the US economy, but it sure would be interesting to see Trump's "I can push anyone I want around" and "Please trump pee on us! we need your attention!" dynamic to be broken up.

The effects wouldn't be quite as bad as you'd think. e.g. say some country can't export to the USA. Well, there's now a surplus of goods that used to be bought by Americans. Exporters will try and sell them in other markets, lowering prices while the surpluses sort themselves out. The other importer nations will have an economic growth spurt as a result. Exporter nations won't be so happy, but there will be winners and losers, offseting the size of the loss of America as a buyer's market. So they lose one big market, but the other markets in fact become more competitive and soak up a lot of the displaced production. Not least of which because now the people who make the things USA used to export can now sell the same thing, since other nations will retaliate against the USA with their own tariffs. Many of the nations that buy and sell to America will now just buy and sell with each other, offseting the losses.

America will have the opposite effect. With a lack of imports, there will be acute shortages and price rises, and that can in fact cause runaway processes such as hoarding and hyperinflation - which is a self-sustaining process. As the price increases, people want to hoard a lot more to both avoid paying more later, and to profit on the black market, this then feeds into runaway increases. Creating an entire supply chain for the goods in question might take way too long to avoid that happening, if there's a big sudden drop in supply.

So, if any one country locks themselves off, it's going to hurt themselves a lot more than everyone else. The other 195 countries can in fact try and market their produce anywhere else, the single isolationist country is basically cutting themselves off from all markets.

Unless you're North Korea, where you don't give a damn that it's hurting your country.
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Wolfhunter107

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #514 on: February 01, 2017, 09:16:49 pm »

USS Antietam runs aground in Tokyo Bay, leaks up to 1,100 gallons of oil.

I feel sorry for whoever her captain is, because his career probably just ended right there.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #515 on: February 01, 2017, 09:21:47 pm »

The sad thing is that there wasn't a convenient jumbo jet from Iran passing by. You shoot down one of those killing hundreds of civilians and you get a commendation and a medal, to offset the dishonorable discharge from the accident. Doing something terrible on purpose always looks better than a mistake.

smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #516 on: February 01, 2017, 10:44:01 pm »

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/317485-trump-claims-iran-is-taking-over-iraq-in-late-night-tweet

Twitterplomacy..... That's all I've got to say.

Obviously it's meant for his supporters, but he no longer represents just his supporters....

edit: The transcript that CNN got for the Mexico call differs a bit from others: http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/politics/malcolm-turnbull-donald-trump-pena-nieto/index.html
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 11:17:59 pm by smjjames »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #517 on: February 01, 2017, 11:39:12 pm »

I don't know where the Right and Left are on the scale in Australia compared to the US and in Europe though.
The scale is kinda pointless tbh, it's too simplistic. Thus you get this shit where Trump is allied to some left wing groups (relative to US) whereas some centre-leftist (relative to US) are humiliated, and nowhere is this most obvious with how Russian communists like Trump, further compounded by political religious factions.
I think values is more important, being defined enough to group things meaningfully in a vague sorta way that determines what end-goals each party is striving for, but being vague enough that the groups can be applied across the world with parties that pursue different economic, social and foreign policies with different labels, local objectives and terminology/definition variations
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I also think this goes at some lengths to explaining why how when those whose political camps have too different values, the other side appears cartoonishly evil. Sure geographical splits and lines of communication factor immensely into this, but even on the internet where there are no such barriers, people put up barriers and still lack any ability to comprehend how the other thinks. To use another pair of illustrative examples, a Progressive cannot understand why a Conservative wants to uphold an old, oppressive morality in the face of sexual liberty, whilst the Conservative cannot comprehend why the Progressive attacks the unbroken religion for the sake of degeneracy. The difference in how such two groups look at the same situation necessarily renders understanding and respect for one another very difficult. Another great example in Europe is between the nationalists and liberals within the European Union, the liberals are unconcerned with where governance is because they feel their individual rights, freedom and self-expression are respected, whilst the nationalist sees their sovereign unit being replaced by the EU. The liberals see the nationalists as tearing down an international pillar of democracy and freedom whilst the nationalist sees an international entity tearing down their supreme self-governance, once more the difference in how things are viewed and how both are directly seeing the other as antagonist and threat to the other is visible
For Conservatives, this would explain why they often have much difficulty in politically integrating those from outside religions. Christian Conservatives that stress an ecumenical sense of "Christian values" are able to maintain unity and continuity with no difference, whereas in the old case of Ireland the descent from Presbyterians vs Roman Catholics is a significant threat to the continuity of either. A more contemporary example would be how in the USA, the Christian Conservatives do not endorse Islam even though they share many opinions: accepting a religion which denies the core tenet or their creed would threaten their most significant source of Objectivity. An intriguing example is Hindu Nationalism, which being an amalgamation of many polytheistic faiths, is very tolerant of all of its constituents and cousins, but is highly intolerant of proselytizing faiths it views as undermining its objectivity, morality and continuity.

Also my last point I can think of before I'm absolutely too knackered to think any longer is the notion of there being an end-goal of progress one can definitively work towards. It shows in how for one side the current year is a serious argument whilst for the other the current year is a meme; one considers that there is such a quantifiable thing as progress whilst the other simply views change as change, with whether the change being good or bad standing on the merits of the change involved itself. When Conservatives fail to deal with outside political groups amicably it's usually a clash of the objective standard against another, when Progressives fail to deal with outside political groups amicably it's usually a clash of this concept against anyone else. The idea that the nats, libs or cons do not have any valid ideas, truths, wisdoms or possible better ways to live, the prog way is the way forward and they're all just wrong. To best illustrate this, the whole saying "be on the right side of history" makes many judgements, centering on the assumption that the progressive way is universally good and shall remain unchallenged for all history as the only good that is, and will ever be. It is amusing to note the parallels in how religious conservatives are usually more reluctant to conduct interfaith dialogues than religious liberals, much in the same way that progressives do not conduct interpolitical dialogues in Universities or the Media. We are all much alike in our flaws and virtues!

That is all from me.

LoSboccacc

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #518 on: February 01, 2017, 11:41:24 pm »

Meanwhile Berkeley is on fire. Jokes on them as they have literally become domestic terrorists because of words wich might have hurt their feelings.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #519 on: February 01, 2017, 11:45:30 pm »

No, it's because Milo likes to spread hate speech against specific people who might be (and have been) in the audience. He publishes their name, flashing photos of them up and inciting the crowd to ridicule them. You might think that's "free speech" but it's not really. Outing transgender students that happen to go to the college (and be in the audience itself on more than one occasion) he's speaking at is his favorite game. Basically he's a low motherfucking cunt and deserves more than just protests.

Basically what he does is equivalent to the KKK coming to your college and "naming and shaming" black students (by name, with photos pointing them out) for daring to go to the college, in front of a white supremacist crowd. Sure, discuss ideas, but personal attacks on vulnerable members of the college community is not acceptable speech.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 11:51:33 pm by Reelya »
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PTTG??

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #520 on: February 01, 2017, 11:46:40 pm »

Meanwhile Berkeley is on fire. Jokes on them as they have literally become domestic terrorists because of words wich might have hurt their feelings.

You'd complain that the White Rose was too confrontational.

I support the protest. We must fight against this upswing in fascism now, before it becomes entrenched.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 11:48:12 pm by PTTG?? »
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LoSboccacc

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #521 on: February 01, 2017, 11:49:36 pm »

Meanwhile Berkeley is on fire. Jokes on them as they have literally become domestic terrorists because of words wich might have hurt their feelings.

You'd complain that the White Rose was too confrontational.

I support the protest. We must fight against this upswing in fascism now, before it becomes entrenched.

Oh I support protesting. It's the beatings and the rioting that irks me. 

But nice to know that's how ppl view the use of violence around here.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #522 on: February 01, 2017, 11:52:25 pm »

You should be a professor on political science or something, LW, and I mean that in a good way.

Anyway, modern Christianity has Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and all the various subgroups pretty tolerant of each other now (at least in the US), but it took a LONG time to get to that point.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #523 on: February 01, 2017, 11:54:09 pm »

Don't get lobsock mixed up with LW, different people.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 11:57:05 pm by Reelya »
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alway

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #524 on: February 01, 2017, 11:55:46 pm »

Meanwhile Berkeley is on fire. Jokes on them as they have literally become domestic terrorists because of words wich might have hurt their feelings.

You'd complain that the White Rose was too confrontational.

I support the protest. We must fight against this upswing in fascism now, before it becomes entrenched.

Oh I support protesting. It's the beatings and the rioting that irks me. 

But nice to know that's how ppl view the use of violence around here.
Does this offend you? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/96/9f/6a/969f6a74b25347d06956ceb9360b11be.jpg
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