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[martinuzz]

Must have missed it. But this time, Congressmen drove down there and was turned away. That's new.

In the same speech where Trump said that waterboarding works really well, and torture is okay, he also mentioned that he would look into reopening foreign CIA black sites.
I don't think there's been any mention yet though of using those black sites to detain illegal immigrants.

[majikero]

It's not actually actual black sites. They're just moving them to detention centers to bypass the whole, "let lawyers in to see the people detained in the airport". Well, they can't if they're not in the airport.

[smjjames]

Homeland Security Sec. John Kelly clears the way for green card holders.

That's an improvement at least, now we'll have to see if they actually are let through.

[martinuzz]

Some more symbolism from the Volkskrant cartoonists

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[MetalSlimeHunt]

What? That's like barely symbolism, and boring at that. You call Vollskrant and tell them to step up their game.

This wouldn't have happened if Trump was drawing these anti-Trump cartoons. He employs the best cartoonists. Just the best you've ever seen. It's yuge.

[redwallzyl]

relevant NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/29/us/politics/white-house-official-in-reversal-says-green-card-holders-wont-be-barred.html

highlighted relevant parts.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The president’s order, enacted with the stroke of a pen at 4:42 p.m. Eastern on Friday, suspended entry of all refugees to the United States for 120 days, barred Syrian refugees indefinitely and blocked entry into the United States for 90 days for citizens of seven predominantly Muslim countries: Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen.

A series of rulings by federal judges across the country blocked part of the president’s actions, preventing the government from deporting some travelers who found themselves ensnared by the presidential order. But the court decisions largely stopped short of letting them into the country or issuing a broader ruling on the constitutionality of Mr. Trump’s actions.

Lawyers for those denied entry said on Sunday that there was significant confusion and disagreement among border agents about who was affected by Mr. Trump’s order.

In a statement Sunday morning, the Department of Homeland Security said that agents would “continue to enforce all of President Trump’s executive orders,” and that “prohibited travel will remain prohibited.” But it also said that the department “will comply with judicial orders.”

The legal battles over the president’s order intensified as lawyers for those detained accused the government of failing to abide by the Saturday night rulings and said agents were refusing to allow them access to potential clients, in direct violation of those rulings.

On Saturday, Judge Leonie M. Brinkema of Federal District Court in Alexandria, Va., ordered government officials to “permit lawyers access to all legal permanent residents being detained at Dulles International Airport.” The ruling was one of at least four around the nation temporarily blocking aspects of Mr. Trump’s executive order.

“We continue to face Border Patrol noncompliance and chaos,” said Marielena Hincapié, the executive director of the National Immigration Law Center.

Lawyers gathered on Sunday morning at Dulles International Airport said that border agents had told lawyers that they would not be permitted to see anyone who was being held. Sharifa Abbasi, 32, one of the lawyers, said a customs agent had told her that “upper management” had instructed agents at Dulles not to provide any information or access to lawyers at the airport.

By Sunday afternoon, lawyers at Dulles were considering seeking a contempt order from Judge Brinkema against the border agency.

In New York, lawyers for the American Civil Liberties Union filed a request for clarification with the Brooklyn judge who had blocked part of the president’s order Saturday night.

“Petitioners’ counsel have received repeated reports of individual members subject to the order who have been placed on planes, possibly deported,” the lawyers wrote in a motion to the court.

The confusion in enforcing the president’s order was particularly evident in the handling of those who have valid green cards, making them legal permanent residents of the United States.
First Draft

On Saturday night, the Department of Homeland Security said that Mr. Trump’s order did apply to green card holders who were traveling to the United States from the seven countries affected.

White House officials reiterated that position in a briefing for reporters on Saturday afternoon, saying that green card holders from the seven countries would need a case-by-case waiver to return.

Mr. Priebus appeared to change that position Sunday morning. “As far as green card holders, moving forward, it doesn’t affect them,” he said on NBC’s “Meet the Press” program.

He defended Mr. Trump’s order, saying it had been carried out smoothly and was protecting Americans from terrorist threats. On Saturday, a day after the order was issued, airports were marked by scenes of confusion and protest as officials tried to interpret the order, including how to handle green card holders.

Around the globe on Saturday, legal residents of the United States who hold valid green cards and approved visas were blocked from boarding planes overseas or detained for hours in American airports.

Mr. Priebus said several times during the NBC interview that green card holders would not be subject to the order “going forward.” But he repeatedly suggested that anyone, including American citizens, who traveled from any of the seven predominantly Muslim countries identified in the order would be subjected to additional scrutiny.

“If you’re an American citizen traveling back and forth to Libya, you are likely to be subjected to further questioning when you come into an airport,” Mr. Priebus said. He added later, “There is discretionary authority that a customs and border patrol agent has when they suspect that someone is up to no good when they travel back and forth to Libya or Yemen.”

Mr. Priebus said that travelers from the seven countries would be “subjected, temporarily, with more questioning, until a better system is put in place.”

Mr. Trump — in office just a week — has found himself accused of constitutional and legal overreach with his executive order. Large crowds of protesters turned out at airports around the country to denounce Mr. Trump’s ban.

Lawyers who sued the government to block the White House order said the judge’s decision could affect an estimated 100 to 200 people who were detained upon arrival at American airports.

Judge Ann M. Donnelly of Federal District Court in Brooklyn, who was nominated by former President Barack Obama, ruled just before 9 p.m. Saturday that carrying out Mr. Trump’s order by sending the travelers home could cause them “irreparable harm.” She said the government was “enjoined and restrained from, in any manner and by any means, removing individuals” who had arrived in the United States with valid visas or refugee status.

The ruling does not appear to force the administration to let in people otherwise blocked by Mr. Trump’s order who have not yet traveled to the United States.

The judge’s one-page ruling came swiftly after lawyers for the American Civil Liberties Union testified in her courtroom that one of the people detained at an airport was being put on a plane to be deported back to Syria at that very moment.

Hundreds of people waited outside the courthouse chanting “Set them free!” as lawyers made their case. When the crowd learned that Judge Donnelly had ruled in favor of the plaintiffs, a rousing cheer went up in the crowd.

Minutes after the judge’s ruling in New York, another judge, Leonie M. Brinkema of Federal District Court in Virginia, issued a temporary restraining order for a week to block the removal of any green card holders being detained at Dulles International Airport.

Throughout the day on Saturday, there were numerous reports of students attending American universities who were blocked from returning to the United States from visits abroad. One student said in a Twitter post that he would be unable to study at Yale. Another who attends the Massachusetts Institute of Technology was refused permission to board a plane. A Sudanese graduate student at Stanford University was blocked for hours from entering the country.

Human rights groups reported that legal permanent residents of the United States who hold green cards were being stopped in foreign airports as they sought to return from funerals, vacations or study abroad.

The White House said the restrictions would protect “the United States from foreign nationals entering from countries compromised by terrorism” and allow the administration time to put in place “a more rigorous vetting process.” But critics condemned Mr. Trump over the collateral damage on people who had no sinister intentions in trying to come to the United States.

White House aides said on Saturday that there had been consultations with State Department and homeland security officials about carrying out the order. “Everyone who needed to know was informed,” one aide said.

But that assertion was denied by multiple officials with knowledge of the interactions, including two officials at the State Department. Leaders of Customs and Border Protection and of Citizenship and Immigration Services — the two agencies most directly affected by the order — were on a telephone briefing on the new policy even as Mr. Trump signed it on Friday, two officials said.

[smjjames]

WaPo article: Jihadist groups are already claiming a victory and that the travel ban validates their view that the West is on a Crusade against Muslims

Big freaking surprise there....

[Reelya]

Remember that thing about people saying they'd leave America if Trump got in, and articles saying "you say that every election. It never happens".

Well maybe this time. Remember that Alabama anti-illegal-immigrant law? Well the dragnet caught a lot of tourists, visiting business executives (including German business executives from Mercedes), regular immigrants etc. And there was actually a physical exodus from Alabama. Trump's proposals are at least at that level. The real problem is that there's no way to be sure anyone is or is not an illegal until you arrest and doxx them. So as in Alabama, if there are tough anti-illegal measures in place, if you leave the house without your "papers" then you could be in big trouble if you're pulled up by any law enforcement official. The real risk is if Trump basically creates manadatory identity checks any time you interact with law enforcement, like they did in Alabama.

There were predictions I made back when "round up and kick out 11 million people" were made, that you'd have to basically create a Gestapo with wide-ranging surveillance powers over ALL Americans to achieve that. I'd hoped they'd never be tested, in fact I still hoped that until 1 week ago. But then, ya know ...

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Most states already have laws requiring people to identify themselves to cops, either as a crime to not do so or permitting arrest and detainment of the unidentified to ensure they aren't criminals.

[redwallzyl]

Remember that thing about people saying they'd leave America if Trump got in, and articles saying "you say that every election. It never happens".

Well maybe this time. Remember that Alabama anti-illegal-immigrant law? Well the dragnet caught a lot of tourists, visiting business executives (including German business executives from Mercedes), regular immigrants etc. And there was actually a physical exodus from Alabama. Trump's proposals are at least at that level.

The real problem is that there's no way to be sure anyone is or is not an illegal until you arrest and doxx them. So as in Alabama, if there are tough anti-illegal measures in place, if you leave the house without your "papers" then you could be in big trouble if you're pulled up by any law enforcement official. The real risk is if Trump basically creates manadatory identity checks any time you interact with law enforcement, like they did in Alabama.

im getting my Canadian passport picture taken today just in case. also i heard my dad talking with my grandpa about getting citizenship as he is a resident. sounds silly but that how this is making immigrants feel.

[smjjames]

Remember that thing about people saying they'd leave America if Trump got in, and articles saying "you say that every election. It never happens".

Well maybe this time. Remember that Alabama anti-illegal-immigrant law? Well the dragnet caught a lot of tourists, visiting business executives (including German business executives from Mercedes), regular immigrants etc. And there was actually a physical exodus from Alabama. Trump's proposals are at least at that level. The real problem is that there's no way to be sure anyone is or is not an illegal until you arrest and doxx them. So as in Alabama, if there are tough anti-illegal measures in place, if you leave the house without your "papers" then you could be in big trouble if you're pulled up by any law enforcement official. The real risk is if Trump basically creates manadatory identity checks any time you interact with law enforcement, like they did in Alabama.

There were predictions I made back when "round up and kick out 11 million people" were made, that you'd have to basically create a Gestapo with wide-ranging surveillance powers over ALL Americans to achieve that. I'd hoped they'd never be tested, in fact I still hoped that until 1 week ago. But then, ya know ...

The effect is already happening: http://www.vox.com/2017/1/29/14429500/trumps-immigration-ban-science-research

There's also the fact that they are considering requiring foriegn visitors to provide social media and cellphone information, otherwise they'd be barred. I can see that having a bad effect on tourism.

[FearfulJesuit]

I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate my distant relative James Buchanan on no longer running the most ignominious administration in American history.

[Reelya]

The ICE executive order is actually worrying. It expands ICE by 10000. Basically they have to find 10000 officers from somewhere. And the usually supply for that is people who want into law enforcement/military/security but never cut the mustard, or had personality problems. Basically you need 10000 security-trained people who don't already have a proper job. And those people are bottom of the barrel. Basically rapidly expanding a law-enforcement arm lowers hiring and training standards. That's just a thing. It's like saying you're going to expand enrolment in Particle Physics degrees by 10 fold, and therefore we'll have 10 times the research in Particle Physics. It doesn't work like that.

Also, I've read articles where they talk to regular police, and they complain that the Border Patrol people are already under-trained trigger happy cowboys. Basically they're not "police plus" they're "police minus". And they're going to scrape the barrel further to find another 10000 of these people? How about we kill two birds with one stone and empty prisons out to be the ICE officers?

So not only are they going to be recruiting a lot of sub-par officers from some fantasy-land pool of dedicated and talented officers that doesn't exist, they're also giving them vast new powers to interfere with how regular people live. Basically on their say-so they could now personally threaten to detain a non-citizen mother with children because she got a parking ticket. That's in line with Trump's Executive Order. Sure, maybe it would get bogged down in the courts, but the immigration officer can still threaten the mother with that, she gets stuck in county and her kids in foster care, while the mess is sorted out, unless she sucks his dick on a regular basis. So you're going to get abuse, rape, sex slavery out of this. I'm not really exaggerating. You put powerful, unsupervised men in a position of authority over women and their kids, who have the right to split up families, and they're going to sexually exploit that power. It's just common sense that this would happen.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I have literally never once heard anything positive about ICE, even from people who are otherwise police-apologists.

[majikero]

Shit is getting depressing. Have some more twitter nonsense to lighten up.
https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/825781634330980352
"Days until achieving MAJORITY disapproval from @Gallup

Reagan: 727
Bush I: 1336
Clinton: 573
Bush II: 1205
Obama: 936

Trump: 8. days."

... on second thought, this isn't working.