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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4160083 times)

Sheb

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #11910 on: August 29, 2017, 03:03:30 am »

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Culise

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #11911 on: August 29, 2017, 07:28:16 am »

Aye.  War with Japan didn't automatically include war with Germany.  Certainly, the USSR being at war with Germany didn't cause Japan to tear up its non-aggression pact with the USSR, which caused Berlin more than a bit of irritation. 
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #11912 on: August 29, 2017, 07:35:05 am »

Yeah. TBH I have thought more than once that the Germans made a shitty deal there. I mean, they got nothing but trouble from Japan. Maybe they'd have ended up at war with the US eventually, maybe not, but they certainly got a(nother) huge enemy from the Pacific scenario with little to show for it
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 07:37:25 am by ChairmanPoo »
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Sheb

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #11913 on: August 29, 2017, 07:48:27 am »

Well, it was pretty clear that the Roosevelt administration wanted to join the war against Germany. US destroyer were already destroying German U-Boat. Germany declaring war made it a bit easier for Roosevelt, but I'm fairly certain nothing much would have changed otherwise.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #11914 on: August 29, 2017, 08:07:43 am »

After Pearl Harbor, a declaration of war against Germany would have been impossible to get had Hitler not declared war against the US. Indeed, Congress would probably have axed Lend-Lease because that equipment could be used Japan instead.   
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Culise

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #11915 on: August 29, 2017, 10:22:37 am »

After Pearl Harbor, a declaration of war against Germany would have been impossible to get had Hitler not declared war against the US. Indeed, Congress would probably have axed Lend-Lease because that equipment could be used Japan instead.
I'd be surprised.  There were already bloody flags to be waved and more being accumulated all the time as the Battle of the Atlantic ramped up, such as the fate of the Reuben James, Kearny, and Robin Moor, and most of these ships were light combatants that would not have been as critical in the Pacific given the losses suffered at Pearl Harbor were disproportionately borne by the fleet's battlewagons.  The allies fighting against Germany were also the same allies presently fighting against Japan: Pearl Harbor was accompanied by similar attacks at Hong Kong, and attacks aimed at Malaya and the DEI would go off literally within 24 hours of Pearl Harbor and Hong Kong.  It wouldn't be much of a stretch, especially with a growing push by the executive branch and pro-British interventionists behind it, to go after "the perfidious Nips' Hun allies, who have subjugated Europe and even now threaten valiant Britain, attacking American shipping and providing both material and moral aid to the Nips," or some variant on that sort of phrasing.  With over 70% of Americans agreeing that Nazi Germany was the biggest threat in late 1941 before the German declaration of war, I could still see a formal declaration of war against Germany being pushed through by 1942 or 1943 at the very latest.  Certainly, that presumption was a significant part in the apparent reasoning by the Germans to make the declaration of war formal: it allowed the Germans to take the submarine war to the Americans, who were already acting as belligerents, and further strangle the Home Isles, based on the gamble that they could win before the US got into gear. 

That said, I could see Lend-Lease being cut back for domestic rearmament.  Indeed, after all, that's what did happen; the increase in Lend-Lease slowed as arming the new waves of American recruits became more important.  I could also see the delay making a Europe-First policy being more difficult, as the Japan-First policy would have time to gain momentum.  Of course, on the flip side, Operation Torch didn't go off until November of 1942, so a delay may not be that crippling. 
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 10:26:37 am by Culise »
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scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #11916 on: August 29, 2017, 10:24:49 am »

Accelerationists are leftists who believe that attempts at legislative or even direct action are futile and only draw out the consequences of capitalism. To them, getting rid of capitalism is only possible when it's reached its late-stage and become fully degenerate and weak.

As such, accelerationists believe that leftists should vote for the most vile hypercapitalists possible in order to accelerate the coming of the revolution, like ripping off a bandage.
I've been called an accelerationist for thinking that Trump staying in power is better than impeachment into Pence, because Trump's just in it for the ego boost and narcissism (and the Republicans don't seem to really want to work with him) while Pence has an actual *agenda* and a somewhat warm relationship with Congressional Republicans.

Nu it just means your a trumpetist instead of a penist
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #11917 on: August 29, 2017, 12:17:55 pm »

Accelerationists are leftists who believe that attempts at legislative or even direct action are futile and only draw out the consequences of capitalism. To them, getting rid of capitalism is only possible when it's reached its late-stage and become fully degenerate and weak.

As such, accelerationists believe that leftists should vote for the most vile hypercapitalists possible in order to accelerate the coming of the revolution, like ripping off a bandage.
I've been called an accelerationist for thinking that Trump staying in power is better than impeachment into Pence, because Trump's just in it for the ego boost and narcissism (and the Republicans don't seem to really want to work with him) while Pence has an actual *agenda* and a somewhat warm relationship with Congressional Republicans.

Nu it just means your a trumpetist instead of a penist
Nah it means he's gay.  Of the people I know, the LGBT people are much more likely to want Trump over Pence.  Trump has always been wishy-washy flippy-floppy on LGBT rights, Pence... less so.  And with a Republican congress and a right-leaning supreme court with some older leftist judges, there is some real fear Pence could do damage. 

This is unrelated to LGBT rights, but Pence is kind of insane.  When he was governor of Indiana, he opposed legalizing a syringe exchange program and favored legislation that made owning a syringe illegal unless you had a medical need.  This during the opiod crisis no less.  The result was a lot of dirty needles floating around in Indiana, even among hospitals (which often use syringe exchange programs to swap out used needles).  So somehow, in 2014 we had a new HIV crisis.  Meanwhile the CDC came to Indiana to investigate and all the law enforcement and health officials tried to persuade him to change his mind.  After two months Mike Pence told them he was going to pray on it.  Two days later he finally relented to everyone and made a syringe exchange program.  Over the course of all this, 190 people got HIV.  There's no cure and the treatment is very expensive, those people are going to be dealing with this forever because Mike Pence is a fanatic and a moron.  When the health insurance debates were happening he didn't support any measures to improve the opioid crisis either, he has no remorse and he isn't going to change as a person.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #11918 on: August 29, 2017, 12:31:58 pm »

The Republicans in general didn't do a whole lot on the opioid crisis either, it took the more moderate Senators and some of those in the more heavily affected states to put in much of anything. Even then, experts were saying that it was far from being enough.

No idea if the House bill did anything for the opioid crisis either, AFAIK it was a straight obamacare repeal.

I get what people are saying about Pence, someone mentioned earlier that he's actually more radical than most Republicans. However, there is still the very real chance that Trump would get impeached anyway.

Would Paul Ryan be any better? I don't know much about his policies other than that he has a terrible tax plan. Although, if it was the Democrats in power, it'd most likely be Nancy Pelosi, if she's still Speaker of the House at the time.

edit: Checked wiki and Paul Ryan is pretty heavily conservative.

edit2: Nancy Pelosi is about inline with California Democrats, only main thing is that she's rather old at 77.

As for any sort of "Impeach Pence too!" thing, there would have to be something to impeach for and the worst he has gotten out of the scandal so far is making some poor choices in picking staff (which Trump most certainly had the last word on, so....) and not being totally honest about some things.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 12:47:05 pm by smjjames »
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Trekkin

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #11919 on: August 29, 2017, 12:45:35 pm »

edit: Checked wiki and Paul Ryan is pretty heavily conservative.

In a different way, though. He's a very enthusiastic Ayn Rand devotee; whether he has enough of a functioning theory of mind to form positions on social issues is an open question. Which is why he's Speaker in the first place, of course.
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scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #11920 on: August 29, 2017, 01:00:04 pm »

Accelerationists are leftists who believe that attempts at legislative or even direct action are futile and only draw out the consequences of capitalism. To them, getting rid of capitalism is only possible when it's reached its late-stage and become fully degenerate and weak.

As such, accelerationists believe that leftists should vote for the most vile hypercapitalists possible in order to accelerate the coming of the revolution, like ripping off a bandage.
I've been called an accelerationist for thinking that Trump staying in power is better than impeachment into Pence, because Trump's just in it for the ego boost and narcissism (and the Republicans don't seem to really want to work with him) while Pence has an actual *agenda* and a somewhat warm relationship with Congressional Republicans.

Nu it just means your a trumpetist instead of a penist
Nah it means he's gay.

No I just said he wasn't a penist

[me]awaits rimshot [/me]
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Max™

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #11921 on: August 29, 2017, 01:25:18 pm »

*Tom+Snare Flam*
*Kick*
*Ride*

Trump getting impeached will probably require the republicans losing control of the Senate and House, which would then help neuter the damage Pence would do, so hopefully Trump maintains just enough popularity to make him a risky enough albatross that congress just sits around grumbling about him instead of trying to seize the Pence by the, er... balls.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #11922 on: August 29, 2017, 01:30:20 pm »

It'll also depend on how the whole investigation shakes out, even with what we know right now, it's still a question of what did Trump know, when did he know, and what were his actions. Trump isn't helping his own case by looking like he's trying to hide something and acting the way that they have.
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Max™

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #11923 on: August 29, 2017, 01:32:40 pm »

Who here expected me to post a Joe Scarborough story?

Show of hands!

Nobody? Surprised me too: http://thehill.com/homenews/media/348370-scarborough-trump-never-thought-he-was-going-to-win-campaign-was-a-money
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #11924 on: August 29, 2017, 01:34:56 pm »

Trump getting impeached will probably require the republicans losing control of the Senate and House, which would then help neuter the damage Pence would do, so hopefully Trump maintains just enough popularity to make him a risky enough albatross that congress just sits around grumbling about him instead of trying to seize the Pence by the, er... balls.
Neuter.. Isn't that exactly what Pence once said he wants to do to gay people? Or was that one of the other Repucrazies?
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