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[4maskwolf]

EBWOP

Well... not all of them... you know what I mean.

If we take at face value the idea that Tiruin is town and TDS is an agent operative, then there's only one guard who could be scum: doll's observant guard.  This is something I accounted for in my post earlier, and I consider him slightly more likely to be scum than webadict, who I consider most town of the unconfirmed list.

I've already staked my taste buds on Tiruin being town and I see no reason to disbelieve TDS's claim besides the WIFOM of one of my scum suspects, so you're going to have to try harder if you want to increase the WIFOM.

[hector13]

Well I don't really want to argue against people considering me town but okay.

In order for me to be scum, TDS would have to be scum too, which... probably not the best gambit to make on D3 when we would've already lost our third scum partner. Not something I'd've signed off on.

In order for Persus to be scum, that would mean Tiruin would have to be scum - there is also the possibility of Persus/Tiruin being the Hivemind, but again, risky gambit to make early doors - which seems unlikely.

So I guess yeah... doll is the most likely to be scum, given their claim isn't from someone else's claim.

However, what about Holoform Modulators? I'm not sure how they work, or if the Advanced version could fool a scanner, but if Persus or I had one as a hivemind (this seems like the only role that would have one, imo) we could've used it when we were investigated by other people, who we wouldn't have had to convert. This would give us ostensible town-cred should that person backing our claim flip at some point.

The guards could also have been converted when they protected Tiruin.

Meph: how would it work if multiple guards protected the same target one night, and a hivemind chose that night to convert the protected player?

[doll]

There is no mechanical information in the game.
Literally every claim is based on assumptions about other player's play.
There is no scenario that could be used to clear any other player.
There is no scenario that could be used to confirm the guilt of another player.
Methodological doubt has it's place in mafia. It is useful for breaking setups mechanically.
This day is not a scenario which can be broken mechanically.
Right this second every other player in the game could have an anti-town objective.
Tiruin knows nothing about other players.
DA has no way of knowing whether or not a player is scum (or scum siding, as it so often is called).
TheDarkStar alone has mechanical information on another living player. I do not believe that TheDarkStar truly knows which player he has mechanical information on. This information in any case exists only in the mind of TDS. To every other player it is nothing more than a claim.
The mind of the other is an opaque and ever changing thing. There exists a fundamental ambiguity about what is the correct thing to do.
All posts are a form of action, and thus carry an intent, which, being divorced from the product, does not exist in the mind of the other - at most, there can be an image of an intent.
It is this impression which is used to influence the mind of the other.
It does not matter if this direction of influence is the goal of the other - by nature, the influence of another is the swaying of the direction of the thought of intent of the other.
In my next post I am going to convince you to lynch Leafsnail.
Allow me to be clear from the outset: I do not care what his role is.
I do not care if Leafsnail is indeed a Vanilla townie. Indeed, that is a reason to prefer killing him over killing many other players.
At this point, he has established that he fully intends to play against the town. He can be considered, at best, a survivor - that is, a player who may not be scum but still votes against and plays against the interests of the town.
For those who would presume that Tiruin is town:
Hector should hold the combat shield.
doll will protect hector13 will protect Persus13 will protect Tiruin.
If a kill occurs upstream of doll, either a hostile roleblock exists, or doll is scum.
It is presumed that a hostile roleblock does not exist.
If hector13 + Persus13 + Tiruin, as a set of town, are delivered into the final five, then town has solved the game and can kill their way through the scum with lynches.
Extend

[Mephansteras]

Meph: how would it work if multiple guards protected the same target one night, and a hivemind chose that night to convert the protected player?

Like all things guards protect against, if there are multiple protecting a single target and a single action is taken against that target I will randomly choose which guard will intervene. What happens then depends on the type of guard.


Doll: Did you intend on extending to Thursday or was that for the extension to Wednesday (which is already done)?

[doll]

Meph:
That extension was a mistake.
Thank you for pointing that out.
Retract Extension
Here's why we should lynch Leafsnail:
We're going to do it eventually.
That's it.

I am actually going to make a case against Leafsnail because I do actually think he might be a survivor and that's one of the things which could quite easily break the three-guards-and-Tiruin congo line.

[doll]

Meph
1) If player A trades a combat shield to player B during Night X, and player A is targeted for a kill, does the shield break, and is player B told the trade was successful?
2) As above, but player B is killed instead.

[doll]

Just so it's out there right away:
There is no need for Tiruin to use the Assassination Bot tonight.
Plenty of players, myself included, are happy and willing to leave the game in the hands of Tiruin's town-ness.
Tiruin is not going to die while the guard congo line remains intact.
Having players like Deus Asmoth get nightkilled moves the game towards the guards-and-Tiruin bloc outnumbering players outside of said group.
If scum kill DA or his target instead of doll/TDS, then there are literally 8 players, five of whom are in my guards-and-Tiruin bloc or clear (TDS).
...
I'm actually pretty happy with this mechanical solution, and I stumbled across it entirely.

Mayor doll's plan for solving Paranormal 25
Lynch Leafsnail D3.
Tiruin boops webadict D3.
4maskwolf lowers alert N3.
Deus Asmoth mindscans 4maskwolf N3.
TheDarkStar gives the shield to Tiruin and the assassination bot to Tiruin N3 - this protects her from scum Assassination bots.
N4 Tiruin gives the shield to hector13 and either uses the bot or gives it to hector13.

After this, TheDarkStar and the guards-and-Tiruin bloc (minus doll) will be clear.
DA scans are clear of being dopps after DA dies.
Players Tiruin tracks through a night with one dopp are clear.

It takes two kills to kill hector13, two to kill Persus13 and unlimited to kill Tiruin, so all in all it's a fairly safe play in terms of unknown scum killing potential.
A scum assassination drone would get around Bodyguard protection. In such a case, things get a lot uglier, but I think it should be salvageable.
We can discuss that when it shows up, though.

If TDS is the scumkill and dies, this leaves the clear hector-persus-Tiruin, a clear 4mask, a booped webadict, TBF, and doll. Lynch TBF and sit on no-lynch until scum are forced to attack and either hector's shield breaks (lynch doll and bot-kill webadict) or doll dies (lynch webadict).
If doll is the scumkill, this leaves the clear hector-persus-Tiruin, a clear 4mask, a clear TDS, a booped webadict and TBF. Lynch TBF then bot-kill webadict.
If Deus Asmoth is the scumkill, this leaves the clear hector-persus-Tiruin, a clear TDS, doll, a booped webadict, TBF and 4mask. Lynch 4mask and bot-kill TBF, then proceed to no-lynch until scum are forced out as per the TDS scenario.
If 4maskwolf is the scumkill, this leaves the clear hector-persus-Tiruin, a clear TDS, a booped webadict, doll, TBF, DA, and 4mask. Lynch doll the second hector's shield breaks, otherwise lynch TBF and have DA scan an unalert 4mask. If doll dies, lynch DA and bot-kill 4mask (then lynch webadict after that) or webadict (if 4mask is clear). If DA dies, lynch 4mask then proceed with the doll-webadict no-lynch plan.
If something unexpected happens, figure it out at that time I guess.
Can you see any problem with my plan, Leafsnail?

[doll]

It goes without saying, but if TDS fails to hand over the tech, he's scum and get's lynched first, then DA, then non-clears until the doll-webadict stall endgame. If hector's shield breaks, lynch doll.

[doll]

EBWOP:
scum!TDS means hector has no shield, so I guess it's actually 'if hector dies from the scumkill, lynch doll' or something, but we can go over that in the unlikely event that it happens.
We only need two clears rather than three once scum!TDS is dead and can clear much more easily with DA/Tiruin, so it should be a relatively tame situation to break if it does come up.

[Leafsnail]

PFP. Lynching me actively works against the breaking strategy you're proposing, doll, and I'm sure you know that. Even if you're worried about survivors specifically (and you have provided no reason we should be, they are objectively less dangerous than doppelgangers in every way) I am not any more likely to be a survivor than any other player.

When you say I am 'anti-town' what you mean is I am not blindly trusting you as being town. That's why you have to kill me in spite of it being a mechanically awful idea. I really hope you're scum because if not the town will have to defeat both you and the doppelgangers.

[doll]

Lynching me actively works against the breaking strategy you're proposing,

How?

When you say I am 'anti-town' what you mean is I am not blindly trusting you as being town. That's why you have to kill me in spite of it being a mechanically awful idea. I really hope you're scum because if not the town will have to defeat both you and the doppelgangers.

Actually the reason you die first is because you've claimed vanilla townie, which if the claim is true will mean that having you alive does nothing to help town.
We can't clear you of potential survivordom with a telepath check, you are the most likely of the players in the game to be a survivor based on your play (I could explain why, though I'm sure you already know most of it), and it's probably the largest technical risk at this point in the game.

Nobody knew that War Vets could show up survive, based on our posts up to that point, so it's less likely (for meta reasons, again) that the war vets are actually survivors. They might be lone dopplegangers, however.

TBF can't be a survivor if DA is town, so I was wrong, and I'll rewrite the plan with a minor edit to make sure that TBF is the preferred war vet to have alive as a clear.

You're still voting me.
Am I still the best lynch target?
If not, who is?

[doll]

Mayor doll's plan revised for solving Paranormal 25
Lynch Leafsnail D3.
Tiruin boops webadict D3.
TheBiggerFish lowers alert N3.
Deus Asmoth mindscans TheBiggerFish N3.
TheDarkStar gives the shield to Tiruin and the assassination bot to Tiruin N3 - this protects her from scum Assassination bots.
N4 Tiruin gives the shield to hector13 and either uses the bot or gives it to hector13.

After this, TheDarkStar and the guards-and-Tiruin bloc (minus doll) will be clear.
DA scans are clear of being dopps after DA dies.
Players Tiruin tracks through a night with one dopp are clear.

It takes two kills to kill hector13, two to kill Persus13 and unlimited to kill Tiruin, so all in all it's a fairly safe play in terms of unknown scum killing potential.
A scum assassination drone would get around Bodyguard protection. In such a case, things get a lot uglier, but I think it should be salvageable.
We can discuss that when it shows up, though.

If TDS is the scumkill and dies, this leaves the clear hector-persus-Tiruin, a clear TBF, a booped webadict, 4mask, and doll. Lynch 4mask and sit on no-lynch until scum are forced to attack and either hector's shield breaks (lynch doll and bot-kill webadict) or doll dies (lynch webadict).
If doll is the scumkill, this leaves the clear hector-persus-Tiruin, a clear TBF, a clear TDS, a booped webadict and TBF. Lynch 4mask then bot-kill webadict.
If Deus Asmoth is the scumkill, this leaves the clear hector-persus-Tiruin, a clear TDS, doll, a booped webadict, TBF and 4mask. Lynch 4mask and bot-kill TBF, then proceed to no-lynch until scum are forced out as per the TDS scenario.
If 4maskwolf is the scumkill, this leaves the clear hector-persus-Tiruin, a clear TDS, a booped webadict, doll, TBF, DA, and 4mask. Lynch doll the second hector's shield breaks, otherwise lynch 4mask and have DA scan an unalert TBF. If doll dies, lynch DA and bot-kill 4mask (then lynch webadict after that) or webadict (if 4mask is clear). If DA dies, lynch TBF then proceed with the doll-webadict no-lynch plan.
If something unexpected happens, figure it out at that time I guess.
If TDS fails to hand over the tech, he's scum and get's lynched first, then DA, then non-clears until the doll-webadict stall endgame. If hector's shield breaks or a shieldless hector dies, lynch doll.

[webadict]

I massively doubt that Leafsnail is a Survivor, but I want to lynch him regardless. He is certainly not town.

4mask is right. He is ONLY trying to sow doubt in the Town.

I am so done with him. Get 6+ votes on him, then we shorten.

Leafsnail.

Extend until we get those votes.

I am okay with the new plan. I still believe that

[webadict]

I still believe that not going on alert is silly, but if TBF is the one doing it, don't care.

[doll]

I still believe that not going on alert is silly, but if TBF is the one doing it, don't care.

Scum have a lot of people they want to kill and I very much doubt they have enough kills to do so.
Extend for votes and for Meph confirmation of tech-trading mechanics.