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[Parisbre56]

Could someone please explain to me what the difference between an equipment and a technique is? I mean, why would I build a piece of equipment if I can just build a technique that does the same? Or do techniques use different/harder rolls to build or require you to expend knowledge to use them or something like that?

[Pancaek]

I'm assuming most techniques will require more knowledge than equipment, be an activated skill rather than a passive bonus, and be more limited in what you can do with them than some of the more esoteric equipment, or any combination of the above.

[Radio Controlled]

Could someone please explain to me what the difference between an equipment and a technique is? I mean, why would I build a piece of equipment if I can just build a technique that does the same? Or do techniques use different/harder rolls to build or require you to expend knowledge to use them or something like that?

I think the idea is that they'll be balanced in ways like that, yeah. Or maybe techniques can't give straight bonuses to a stat while equipment can. Or maybe something else, you'd have to ask pw (though I doubt he has a clear idea on that yet, it's not in the rules yet at least).

[Ozarck]

So, does the ship drill through one square every five hours? Did I miss where it said that?

[Radio Controlled]

So, does the ship drill through one square every five hours? Did I miss where it said that?

See end of new turn:

Ok, here's how this works. Each of these squares is 5 hours of digging. We're basically gonna compress time as we move between locations, so that builders can build more and we don't have to sit around doing nothing.  So builders, each square is 5 hours of work, or 1 sleep to fully restore your stamina. Plan your stuff accordingly.

Unrelated, but dang I misinterpreted the rules, didn't think it'd be 2 stamina for every turn you dive, just thought it was 2 stamina every time you need to roll transcend. Derp. Probably gonna throw some more points into stamina then, though I'll wait until after leaving the sea so it's not unfair. Unless, pw, you say the window for changes has closed.

Also, it's gonna be pretty dang hard to resurrect people I now realize, even with high transcend, due to the stamina cost. 5 to dive + 2 on turn to find/capture + 2 to place into body. That's 9 stamina, assuming you find the soul immediately and there are no nasties to fight off (unlikely on lvl. 3, seeing how fast they form on lvl1). And then stamina cost equal to the body atribute. Better hope the resurrector had full stamina left or that there's more than 1 diver so they can work in tandem.

Yeah, after depth drive first priority will be more stamina for sure.

[Egan_BW]

PIECEWISE

This system for time passing is super finicky and I don't like it. If time only passes in five-hour blocks, we should design around that, rather than giving me things that take 12 hours to make and thus making me deal with fractions. pls

Maybe just give build times in terms of tiles traveled, and then consume 15 stamina for working for a tile?

[NJW2000]

Relevant

[Ozarck]

Thanks RC.

I didn't realize there was such a stamina cost for diving either. I think I read that though, so I should have been aware. that does significantly limit a diver's reach, at least to start.

Edit: see, I missed the turn itself entirely. When I checked the thread, PW had his big Bolded question about how far to dig, and that was at the top of the page, so I responded to that not thinking that he had made a full turn a few posts prior. ah well.

[Radio Controlled]

This system for time passing is super finicky and I don't like it. If time only passes in five-hour blocks, we should design around that, rather than giving me things that take 12 hours to make and thus making me deal with fractions. pls
Maybe just give build times in terms of tiles traveled, and then consume 15 stamina for working for a tile?

I kinda think the easiest would be to say "you can get 10 (or whatever) buildpoints per block drilled. These buildpoints connect 1-to-1 with bonuses. So you could make 2 +5 items in 1 block's time or 1 +10. Or spend 2 drillblocks on 1 +20 thing. You queue up the things you wanna build, then when we stop drilling to go on adventure you see how many things got finished. Unfinished things are left on the bore as work in progress (eg 10/25 constructed) and can be finished by working on them next timeskip. Non-statbonus things just get a buildcost decided by pw. If you wanna keep working on your stuff while others are out of the bore, every +5 progress is X turns you spend and can do nothing else."

Of course, this doesn't mesh very well with the stamina mechanic, but that can be solved by making the amount of buildpoints you have per block dependent on your stamina stat.

Just train of thought by the way, there's probably issues I haven't thought of yet.

Thanks RC.
I didn't realize there was such a stamina cost for diving either. I think I read that though, so I should have been aware. that does significantly limit a diver's reach, at least to start.

No prob.

When I read that I thought it was for situations like "spend 2 stamina while in deep sea to pinch down on the enemies' carotid artery, and 2 more for every turn you keep that up" or "2 stamina for summoning a deep sea creature to help you, and 2 more for every turn it stays corporeal".

Also, from taking a closer look at the stamina mechanic again:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Stamina Cost and Regain Table
Note: these costs apply whether the action is successful or not.
-1 Blast or Move (per round)
-2 Fight, Transcend or hide (per round)
-3 Build (per hour), Run away while pursued (Move)
-5 Begin projection
+1 Each turn without expending Stamina
+3 Each turn in safety without expending stamina
+30 Eating a meal. Requires at least one turn, out of combat.

Sitting around in your hidey-hole hoping the enemy won't notice you is more tiring than jumping around dodging bullets, heh.

[Ozarck]

Well, Hide seems to be a matter of actively trying to be unseen, rather than finding cover and staying put. I think find would be the stat for getting a good hiding place, whereas hide is more for creeping in teh shadows, clinging to surfaces, trying not to breathe, and somehow dampening your psyche to avoid notice by the Deep. Or whatever.

[Radio Controlled]

Well, Hide seems to be a matter of actively trying to be unseen, rather than finding cover and staying put. I think find would be the stat for getting a good hiding place, whereas hide is more for creeping in teh shadows, clinging to surfaces, trying not to breathe, and somehow dampening your psyche to avoid notice by the Deep. Or whatever.

I thought hide was for getting in cover due to:

while Hide can be used vs Blast to take cover.

Though perhaps that's more for a sort of 'dive for cover' type of situation? In general I'd find it strange that trying to hide yourself in the environment wouldn't be using the Hide stat.

[piecewise]

Could someone please explain to me what the difference between an equipment and a technique is? I mean, why would I build a piece of equipment if I can just build a technique that does the same? Or do techniques use different/harder rolls to build or require you to expend knowledge to use them or something like that?

I think the idea is that they'll be balanced in ways like that, yeah. Or maybe techniques can't give straight bonuses to a stat while equipment can. Or maybe something else, you'd have to ask pw (though I doubt he has a clear idea on that yet, it's not in the rules yet at least).

Basically
1. They drain large amounts of stamina where as most engines drain none
2. They have a very specific use and have to be activated. Ie they're not flat bonuses to everything that uses that roll. So you can't have "Fight +10" it has to be like "+20 move bonus for doing sick parkour"

PIECEWISE

This system for time passing is super finicky and I don't like it. If time only passes in five-hour blocks, we should design around that, rather than giving me things that take 12 hours to make and thus making me deal with fractions. pls

Maybe just give build times in terms of tiles traveled, and then consume 15 stamina for working for a tile?

We can just do it in 5 hour units. I figured people would want to micromanage but I'm fine with 5 hour units.

Thanks RC.

I didn't realize there was such a stamina cost for diving either. I think I read that though, so I should have been aware. that does significantly limit a diver's reach, at least to start.

Edit: see, I missed the turn itself entirely. When I checked the thread, PW had his big Bolded question about how far to dig, and that was at the top of the page, so I responded to that not thinking that he had made a full turn a few posts prior. ah well.

I may reduce stamina costs for diving, at least the cost of sticking around in there doing nothing. Reduce it to 1 or something. Or reduce it to zero and just make attacks more common.

This system for time passing is super finicky and I don't like it. If time only passes in five-hour blocks, we should design around that, rather than giving me things that take 12 hours to make and thus making me deal with fractions. pls
Maybe just give build times in terms of tiles traveled, and then consume 15 stamina for working for a tile?

I kinda think the easiest would be to say "you can get 10 (or whatever) buildpoints per block drilled. These buildpoints connect 1-to-1 with bonuses. So you could make 2 +5 items in 1 block's time or 1 +10. Or spend 2 drillblocks on 1 +20 thing. You queue up the things you wanna build, then when we stop drilling to go on adventure you see how many things got finished. Unfinished things are left on the bore as work in progress (eg 10/25 constructed) and can be finished by working on them next timeskip. Non-statbonus things just get a buildcost decided by pw. If you wanna keep working on your stuff while others are out of the bore, every +5 progress is X turns you spend and can do nothing else."

Of course, this doesn't mesh very well with the stamina mechanic, but that can be solved by making the amount of buildpoints you have per block dependent on your stamina stat.

Just train of thought by the way, there's probably issues I haven't thought of yet.

Thanks RC.
I didn't realize there was such a stamina cost for diving either. I think I read that though, so I should have been aware. that does significantly limit a diver's reach, at least to start.

No prob.

When I read that I thought it was for situations like "spend 2 stamina while in deep sea to pinch down on the enemies' carotid artery, and 2 more for every turn you keep that up" or "2 stamina for summoning a deep sea creature to help you, and 2 more for every turn it stays corporeal".

Also, from taking a closer look at the stamina mechanic again:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Stamina Cost and Regain Table
Note: these costs apply whether the action is successful or not.
-1 Blast or Move (per round)
-2 Fight, Transcend or hide (per round)
-3 Build (per hour), Run away while pursued (Move)
-5 Begin projection
+1 Each turn without expending Stamina
+3 Each turn in safety without expending stamina
+30 Eating a meal. Requires at least one turn, out of combat.

Sitting around in your hidey-hole hoping the enemy won't notice you is more tiring than jumping around dodging bullets, heh.

Yeah, it doesn't always make sense, its really just a thing to restrict certain actions.

[Ozarck]

After I gain the technique I am researching now, my next tech is totally gonna be sick parkour.

[Radio Controlled]

Yeah, it doesn't always make sense, its really just a thing to restrict certain actions.

I understand the need for that. Still, other ways to get to the same end result might be worth considering: I'd rather have to fight of more enemies in the deep sea than having to calculate and plan my exact stamina expenditure and keep track of it every turn, as an example. One is an interesting risk/benefit consideration, the other just more bookkeeping and restrictions.

[Whisperling]

Yeah, it doesn't always make sense, its really just a thing to restrict certain actions.

I understand the need for that. Still, other ways to get to the same end result might be worth considering: I'd rather have to fight of more enemies in the deep sea than having to calculate and plan my exact stamina expenditure and keep track of it every turn, as an example. One is an interesting risk/benefit consideration, the other just more bookkeeping and restrictions.

Honestly, I feel that this would be a better approach in general. Not that stamina is a huge issue, of course, but scrapping it (or only making it used for particularly strenuous or difficult actions?) and increasing difficulty feels more intuitive.

That said, I understand completely if it's needed for balance.