Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[misko27]

I'm locking this thread until I have further use for it. I no longer have any romantic interests or any real opportunities to date (and perhaps more importantly I'm just generally depressed and not really able to date), so this thread has become moot for the moment. If you have anything you wish to tell me or any interest in reviving this thread for whatever reason, please PM me directly.

Spoiler: Original post (click to show/hide)

Well, I never post in Life Advice, but I figured I was just trying to hide my question in GD under one of the emotion threads, and that if I'm going through that trouble I might as well do it right. Apologies in advance for this being long: I figured since I was going to make my own thread I might as well. TL;DR: I have a crush on a super busy girl who sits next to me in class and who I chat with all the time (but only in class). I want to ask her out, but I don't know how. I'm very shy.

Long version: I have a crush on the girl we'll call Sophia that I sit next to in my Statistics class. She's a Psych student. I sit next to her every time we have class. Since the ice was broken by a class assignment, I talk to her every time I see her. That isn't very often, though; only Mondays, Thursdays, and sometimes Tuesdays. Mostly I just ask her about her day and her life or she asks me the same in response; usually, the answer is that she is absurdly busy, and she recounts what work she has to do or has done recently (although this most recent Thursday, she was happy to report that she actually seemed to be on top of her schedule, and said that she was probably going to watch a movie or something; she was definitely in a better mood then I've usually seen her, and smiled a lot). I enjoy talking to her a lot. I have spoken to her outside of class twice. The first time, I got notes from her about a conference that I missed because I had work; that time we sat in the library and talked for about an hour about various things (she's from a small town in Middle America, she went to a very small highschool, and she has always been rather busy). The second, more recent time, I walked with her back from a group thing our Professor makes us go to on Tuesdays; that was a lot shorter, but I learned a couple of things like where she lives on campus (nearby). Other than that I don't see her very often; I haven't ever seen her at the Cafeteria or something. Sophia is a pretty quiet person overall, and generally very focused: most of the time that I walk into class, I see her working on something or another; an essay she's writing, or a book she needs to read, etc. I know she has friends here from what she's said to me, but I don't know anything about them. She doesn't have any facebook or social media profile, and avowedly she spends 35 hours a week studying^{1, 2}. I don't know what her hobbies are; I don't think I've asked that question actually, although I do know when I asked her what she does in her free time she laughed and said "What free time?" I've seen her on her phone every so often, but beyond that she doesn't seem to relax or socialize a lot (I've only seen one other person talk to her, and it was a fellow Psych student asking about their shared professor when Sophia was talking to me about her work as a TA).

I want to ask Sophia out, but details are giving me troubles. I've never actually really successfully asked a girl out before, so I don't have any experience to fall back on. Not that I haven't tried a few times (twice, actually), but the first one was more like an awkward confession over facebook than anything else³, and the second time I thought I asked a girl out, she said yes to something), but I think I ended up proposing an open-ended "would you like to maybe get lunch at some point in the future?", and in practice that was the end of it because I was too shy to say anything again (this is important, remember this). I was in a relationship previously (and a fairly serious one to boot), but my previous girlfriend was very... forward, and I didn't actually make the first move (or the second move, or the third move). I actually tried asking Sophia out once already. When I walked with her back to her apartment, I was listening to her go on about how busy her Tuesdays are (very), and I had an idea in my head to say something like "Hey you should take a break. How about going on a date with me when you're free?", but right before I was about to say that, I decided that was a terrible thing to say. I panicked and I actually froze mid-sentence. When I got ahold of myself, I said something like "Would you like to hang out sometime when you're free?" She responded very positively, but as I've learned in the past, that doesn't actually amount to asking someone out.

So I need to ask her out to something in particular, and I need to suggest a time that would work (this is also a minor issue: since she's pretty busy, she says she needs time to schedule things in advance.)  I don't know what's appropriate in general (most non-terrible advice I've seen on the internet is for asking out complete strangers or your best friend, and this is neither), nor what would work here in particular. I don't know if she has any interest in me or not, and I don't know whether I should be willing to try anyway. The one piece of advice that was for my situation recommended going out for drinks, or perhaps a coffee date. I don't want to do that because A) our campus is fairly far away from stuff. There are some places nearby, but a car would be pretty much mandatory for most of them (I don't have a car), and none of them are bars or starbucks as far as I know, and B) I don't actually drink alcohol OR coffee. I know she drinks coffee sometimes, so she might be up for that. I'd be willing to try the coffee date anyway (we are too young for drinks, and I'd rather not do that even if I could), but there is the risk that if I try drinking coffee the disgust will be visible on my face. Other then those options, not much comes to mind. On campus there is a very loud Cafeteria, a store where you can order food like Chicken fingers and stuff, and two regular cafes.

(TL;DR: It's up at the end of the first paragraph). So the points: Unless it turns out that asking her out is obviously going to go badly, I really want to try it out. I want to ask her out in a way that makes it clear that I want that it's a date and not a platonic hang-out (but I don't want to weird her out, so fairly casual nonetheless). I'd like to actually properly ask out a girl for once instead of sending a message through facebook, confessing my attraction in a little letter, or asking them out to something less than a date (or them asking *me* out on a date); even if she says no, I'd be happy with that result as long as I did my best.

So what should I say? I've been struggling to figure this out for a while, and googling dating tips is not very productive. I've been fairly lonely since I got back on campus and even if this doesn't work out, I'd like the experience of asking someone out to rely upon in the future. And yes I know I'm overthinking this (just look how long this post is!), but knowing that I'm covering a lot of the angles involved will make it a lot easier for me to actually ask her out without freezing mid-sentence again.

¹We took a class survey at one point and have been using the results for various things; once when I was working together with her on something I pointed out mine, and she realized that the rows with our answers were right next to each other because we sat together the day that survey was passed around; because of this, I know her favorite season is fall, her pulse, the number of rockbands she can name in a minute (answer: more than twice the number I can), and other such marginally useful trivia.
²Surely she must be including some of her working hours here; she's also a TA for her teacher
³ Incidentally, to this day I appreciate how gently she let me down. I probably didn't come off very well, or even particularly sane, but she took the time to meet with me in person and gently let me know that she wasn't interested in a boyfriend at the moment. I think she later turned out to be gay.

[NRDL]

Be relaxed.  Best way to do that is do/listen to/watch something that puts you in a very good mood, where you feel on top of the world and at your most capable.  Best possible scenario is simply talking to this girl gets you in that excited, positive frame of mind. 

Once you get relaxed and confident, start a conversation, ask if she'd like to eat out/grab coffee/do something.  Coffee IS nice and casual, and you don't necessarily have to drink coffee.  Drink whatever hot beverage you like, don't pretend to like coffee just because you're at a coffee place. 

Have fun, cause if you're having fun, she's likely to have fun talking to you.  Basic conversation stuff of asking questions, maintaining eye contact, genuinely being interested in the other person, all that's a given, and key to having a good time.  Finding out more about her, and volunteering information about yourself when asked, this builds a rapport.

Make sure to observe her reactions, while you're dropping hints that you're attracted to her.  However you see fit, make it fairly obvious that you're seeing this in a romantic context.  Observing her reaction, try to see if she's responding in a reciprocal manner, or if there's no immediate connection.  Act accordingly.

Good luck 

[martinuzz]

All you need to know about dates

http://www.dateland.com/how-are-dates-grown/

More sersiously, in the situation you're in, the longer you wait, the more awkward it will get. So just put on your Boots of Courage, and ask her out. Preferably on an occasion as you described, where she's in a good mood and telling you she has some free time. Perfect timing for asking her to go to the movies with you instead.

To be quite honest, I believe that if a girl says "I'm on top of my schedule and am going to watch a movie or something", that translates to english as "come on, ask me on a date already"

[NRDL]

Above all, don't go in there like it's some kind of audition and you're there to impress her.

Abso-fucking-lutely this ^  Always keep it in your head, whatever happens when you talk to her, you do not NEED her to like you, you do not NEED her to be attracted to you, you do not NEED to charming or witty or say the right thing all the time, etc.

You don't need to be anything at all.  Remember that you're a young man who is absolutely just as good and worthwhile as anybody else, literally nothing that can happen will ever change that simple accepted truth.  That's more of a general confidence tip than anything to do with relationships, you might not even need it.

Confidence, that most elusive of qualities, is simply being okay and accepting of who you are, without desiring to change any of it.  Any changes or choices you do make will therefore not be based around fear or insecurity, but out of a genuine desire to seek out more pleasant additions to your life. 

[misko27]

Be relaxed.  Best way to do that is do/listen to/watch something that puts you in a very good mood, where you feel on top of the world and at your most capable.  Best possible scenario is simply talking to this girl gets you in that excited, positive frame of mind. 

Once you get relaxed and confident, start a conversation, ask if she'd like to eat out/grab coffee/do something.  Coffee IS nice and casual, and you don't necessarily have to drink coffee.  Drink whatever hot beverage you like, don't pretend to like coffee just because you're at a coffee place.

Noted.

Have fun, cause if you're having fun, she's likely to have fun talking to you.  Basic conversation stuff of asking questions, maintaining eye contact, genuinely being interested in the other person, all that's a given, and key to having a good time.  Finding out more about her, and volunteering information about yourself when asked, this builds a rapport.

Understood, but here is where it's helpful to mention that one time when I asked her for her notes and we chatted for about an hour. We talked a lot about various things (I talked about my Rubix cube skills for example), so I've done some of this before with her. I mean now that I think about it, that might have been a sort of date on its own. I'm not good at noticing these things.

Make sure to observe her reactions, while you're dropping hints that you're attracted to her.  However you see fit, make it fairly obvious that you're seeing this in a romantic context.  Observing her reaction, try to see if she's responding in a reciprocal manner, or if there's no immediate connection.  Act accordingly.

This is a bit of a problem because I'm as dense as a block of iron and my flirting skills are poor. Any tips on that in particular? Because my previous girlfriend was being plenty forward when we first met, and I didn't notice anything but the supremely obvious (in particular, the first sign I noticed was when she asked her friend what to say next, then walked over and repeated exactly what her friend said; also in particular, she wanted to sleep with me that very night, and I waved her off saying "goodbye!"). So it's totally possible that she's expressed clear "I'm not interested" or, as martinuzz said, clear "I am interested, please ask me out" signals. How do I identify these?

More sersiously, in the situation you're in, the longer you wait, the more awkward it will get. So just put on your Boots of Courage, and ask her out. Preferably on an occasion as you described, where she's in a good mood and telling you she has some free time. Perfect timing for asking her to go to the movies with you instead.

To be quite honest, I believe that if a girl says "I'm on top of my schedule and am going to watch a movie or something", that translates to english as "come on, ask me on a date already"

I figured that was possible, but I was caught off guard. Plus... I don't know. I worry about acting on what I perceive as a signal because I'm not good at recognizing them and I don't want to make a mistake. I guess that's a confidence issue.

Generally, women are attracted to confidence.

That's what I've heard.

You mentioned a couple of cafes on your campus - what about asking if she wants to grab a coffee in one of them after a lecture or something (you can order yourself something other than coffee, naturally)? If nothing else, it'll be a good indicator for how asking her out on a date is likely to go. If she's got some kind of vague reason why she can't do it, or she says she's busy and doesn't offer an alternative, then brace yourself for a likely no when you do ask her out. If she's up for it, great, go get a drink with her, make small talk for a couple of minutes, then just say something like 'Hey, want to catch a movie this Saturday?' Or ask her to go bowling, or to come by your dorm room, or play pool at the local youth club or whatever kids your age do now. Ideally she'll be able to pick up on the fact that it's a date, but if you're not great at flirting you may have to tack on 'Like on a date' to the end of your sentence.

That seems like a solid idea. I'm not great at flirting by any stretch of the imagination, though, so I may have tack "like a date?" on. I don't really know what kind of thing to invite her to do though; what do kids do these days? I don't know. I mean I know she seems to like movies.

NRDL's advice is all solid. The stuff about having fun is right on the money - you'll be a hell of a lot more compelling if you're telling her why you think Waterworld is the best movie ever, or why you love Dwarf Fortress, or something like that, as opposed to awkwardly pushing your straw around while you scramble for boring conversation about what buildings she has her classes in. Just don't dominate the conversation too much; give her chance to talk about whatever she's interested in, too. Ideally the two of you will find some similar interests quickly. Be yourself - don't pretend to be someone different.

Noted, although this, at least, I know how to do already.

Abso-fucking-lutely this ^  Always keep it in your head, whatever happens when you talk to her, you do not NEED her to like you, you do not NEED her to be attracted to you, you do not NEED to charming or witty or say the right thing all the time, etc.

You don't need to be anything at all.  Remember that you're a young man who is absolutely just as good and worthwhile as anybody else, literally nothing that can happen will ever change that simple accepted truth.  That's more of a general confidence tip than anything to do with relationships, you might not even need it.

Confidence, that most elusive of qualities, is simply being okay and accepting of who you are, without desiring to change any of it.  Any changes or choices you do make will therefore not be based around fear or insecurity, but out of a genuine desire to seek out more pleasant additions to your life. 

Ha, yeah I guess I should bear that in mind.

So then. I guess the plan is ask her to go with me to one of the cafes after the lecture is over? I like that. An issue that comes to mind is they are both a bit of a walk away from class, but that shouldn't be too problematic. Hmm. A harder issue is that I *think* she is busy right after class, so would it be better to ask her about doing it later that evening (both my classes with her end around 3:30), or maybe... Now see I could try doing it on Tuesday (we have a group thing where we are right next to a cafe then!), but she is busiest on Tuesdays so maybe that might not work. But in general, the plan is to ask her out to a cafe or to get coffee together or something for a few minutes, chat a little bit, then ask her out to do... something. A movie maybe? As for timing: our class has a test on Monday, so that's not ideal. Tuesday is possible, but again she's pretty solidly booked on Tuesdays (incidentally, I am booked on Mondays, which is another reason Monday is not ideal). Thursday might be best because that was the day that she had free time last week, so that might repeat again. So I ask her out to a cafe or something, we chat, and then I... ask her out to a movie or something? Or dinner? Hmm. I want to leave that up in the air, but I feel like if I do that, then I won't actually know what to ask her to do when I get up to it, and then it won't happen.

So two more questions. One: how to flirt, express interest, and recognize positive signs. Two: What's a good idea to ask her to do? Movie? Any movie in particular? At a movie theater or at home (And if so, how do I say that? It's pretty forward...) Or dinner, and if that, where?

[martinuzz]

Hard to tell what movie to go watch, that really depends on the person.
Romantic comedies are usually a safe bet though.

Okay, I'll recommend one: Le Fabuleux Destin d'Amélie Poulain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Am%C3%A9lie

[inteuniso]

I would imagine dates work much like any other meeting with any other person you're in a relationship with: perform the planned activity.

The largest thing I have learned in my journey to enter an intimate relationship is that it is best not to read too heavily into anything. Most people are looking for someone to cuddle with when the weather gets cold: having more resources, emotionally, mentally, or physically makes you more desirable.

Maybe there's someone you're spiritually meant to be with for a period of time: you're more than likely going to get into the relationship through traditional channels.

I dunno dude, people are people whether their clitoris has a urethra running through it or not. I'm simultaneously fascinated with us and completely disinterested with anything to do with us: I would rather dive into the esoteric thoughts of exploring the wild blue yonder of the unknown and I can't bear the thought of exploring by myself.

My point is that Sophia's probably too engrossed in work to be interested in anything besides a study-date: this is, in fact, a good thing, because if she actually does agree to the idea of working together (yay) you have someone who will actively improve your mental state, and has improvement of mental faculties as one of their primary interests. You also have an inexhaustible supply of date-material, and you'll probably work your way into more annual income as well.

[TheBiggerFish]

Did she already go see that movie?  Ask if you can come with.

Note to self:Timestamps, read them :x

That is the extent of my romancing knowledge :v

Good luck.

[Jimmy]

1. Be Clear

Don't give off mixed signals. As the male in the relationship, your role is typically to take the initiative in approaching her. When the opportunity comes up in conversation, ask her straight out if she's in a relationship already. If she's not, follow up with expressing interest in spending time together outside your current contact. This is typically enough to give a clear signal that you're into her.

2. Be Positive

If you get rejected, be cool and shrug it off. Trust me, you'll have plenty of opportunities in the future if you keep an open mind. If you get accepted, try to follow up with a regularly positive attitude whenever you're together. Nobody likes a downer, especially if you're moving towards a relationship. Do NOT discuss negative topics during a date conversation unless the other person brings it up first, and even then try to remain positive. Smile lots.

3. Talk About Them

Get to know the other person. Talking about yourself should be one of the easiest topics since you're the world expert in it, so make sure you ask plenty of questions about their interests, friends, family or other stuff that's personally related. If they don't want to share information about themselves, you're either giving off a creepy vibe or they're probably not into sharing, and it'll be a red flag for difficulties in the future. By the end of the first date you should hopefully know their full name including middle name, their birthday and where they grew up.

4. Prepare

Aside from the basics of personal hygiene and fashion sense, other things to prepare are ensuring you have a planned activity with a clear time frame. You don't have coffee places on campus? Find out what she's interested in and do that instead. Sounds like a good start of a conversation to me. "Hey Sophia, the cafeteria's way too noisy isn't it? Did you want to grab a bite for lunch together and find somewhere nicer today?" If you step outside of your routine and get the other person to do the same, you'll both be in a mind-set to try something different, which includes a relationship.

5. Have Fun

I'm married and my dating days are long behind me, but the best part about dating is the fun of going out and seeing new stuff with other people. Find out what she does for fun and give it a shot! She'll be enjoying herself, you'll be sharing her interests, and you'll make some great memories. Dates don't have to follow any special formula. I've gone on dates with a picnic in the park, a train ride, shopping trips, movies, drinks at a bar, road trips, days at the beach, hiking, ping pong, visiting a Buddhist temple, helping homeless, weekend B&B stays, carnivals, or just going out for coffee. If you're spending time with a person and you're both into a romantic relationship, it's a date. Don't stress to much about the other stuff.

[misko27]

I write a lot of stuff, so my questions are underlined.

My point is that Sophia's probably too engrossed in work to be interested in anything besides a study-date: this is, in fact, a good thing, because if she actually does agree to the idea of working together (yay) you have someone who will actively improve your mental state, and has improvement of mental faculties as one of their primary interests. You also have an inexhaustible supply of date-material, and you'll probably work your way into more annual income as well.

Noted, but I think I'll stick with my original plan. She doesn't enjoy being as busy as she is, so even the workaholic has some room for a date.

Did she already go see that movie?  Ask if you can come with.

Note to self:Timestamps, read them :x

It's not so much about the timestamp as the past tense it was written in. I had already missed that before I posted. And yes, in hindsight I feel like that was obvious.

Of course, nothing is ever obvious to me. Sometimes I think back and it's obvious to me that she's signaling quite clearly that she's interested, and already gave me a few opportunities to act. Other times, I think back and it's obvious that I'm being silly, I'm overthinking everything, and she's too busy for any of this and isn't interested either in me or relationships period. And then there are times like this very moment when nothing seems obvious. The answer is I'm bad at this. Again: anyone have any tips on conveying interest, or knowing when someone else is doing that?

1. Be Clear

Don't give off mixed signals. As the male in the relationship, your role is typically to take the initiative in approaching her. When the opportunity comes up in conversation, ask her straight out if she's in a relationship already. If she's not, follow up with expressing interest in spending time together outside your current contact. This is typically enough to give a clear signal that you're into her.

I would think so. Your idea to just straight up ask her if she's in a relationship and follow up from there is, I admit, extremely tempting: I really don't like beating around the bush and the straightforward approach would be quite nice. My only hesitation is... well I'm very shy, so it'll take a little nerve to say that. The first part would be easy enough (well I might get a little nervous asking that but not much), but the part where I followed up would... I don't know. I get this weird sense of violating someone's space. That's why I didn't ask her out on Thursday either. I often have that problem, though. Can I ask a question, though, to you and everyone else? How am I supposed to lead into that or anything else I want to say? And how do I follow it up For me, this is pretty hard. You say when the opportunity comes up; that's helpful, but should I try to lead the conversation to that point? And what would an example of an appropriate moment be? I can sort of think of some, but isn't that sort of prying? I mean, I guess it is and that's the point, but... How do I ask whether she's single (and is there a difference between asking whether she's single or in a relationship) while sounding like I'm interested in her and not weird (and without just saying it out of the blue)?

I apologize for all the overthinking I'm doing. I have learned from our conversations that one thing Sophia and I have in common is that we're both kinda neurotic at times (her words, not mine). I like figuring out what I'm going to do more definitively because planning it makes it easier for me to do it (again, I really am very shy). I know that it's important to remain flexible (otherwise what do I do if she says something I don't expect?), but having some sort of plan eases my nerves. If I just totally played it by ear I'd probably freeze again.

Aside from the basics of personal hygiene and fashion sense, other things to prepare are ensuring you have a planned activity with a clear time frame. You don't have coffee places on campus? Find out what she's interested in and do that instead. Sounds like a good start of a conversation to me. "Hey Sophia, the cafeteria's way too noisy isn't it? Did you want to grab a bite for lunch together and find somewhere nicer today?" If you step outside of your routine and get the other person to do the same, you'll both be in a mind-set to try something different, which includes a relationship.

Hmm... I like this advice a lot.

If you're spending time with a person and you're both into a romantic relationship, it's a date. Don't stress too much about the other stuff.

Will do.

Thank all of you for the advice so far. I already feel a lot better about this.

[Jimmy]

Following through on the opening is mostly just having small-talk skills. As you spend time together, you'll discover more things you have in common or find interesting and want to know more about, meaning more topics of conversation come up.

My advice is to use every opportunity you can to practise chatting up girls, even if you're not actually planning on asking them out on a date. The more you do it, the more natural it will seem. It'll also be a valuable life skill for the workplace too, since often times it's not your job performance but your personality that will determine how far you advance in a career. Being an interesting person is pretty easy when you know how to ask people the right questions to get them talking. Being a good listener is a skill that will serve you well in a relationship too.

[misko27]

Spoiler: Original comment (click to show/hide)

Well, I'm going to try again on Thursday (that means tomorrow, or technically today. 13 hours from this post basically). The plan going in is something like "Hey Sophia, would you like to get together and do something this weekend if you have some free time? It depends on what have time for; it could just be going out for dinner or coffee together."

I'm tired and on the verge of sleep so that's not the final version I had in mind but it's more-or-less what I'm going to say. My main question: is this enough to indicate that I'm interested in a romantic date? Bear in mind that, based on everything I know about her, she's probably not very experienced at this either (I might well be wrong about this, and I sure wouldn't put money on it, but while I'm pretty terrible at romantic things I'm pretty good at reading people otherwise, and that's the impression I've got.). Secondary questions include whether there is anything I should add in general (or maybe a specific way I should say it), and maybe a last minute tip or two.

I didn't feel like double-posting.

So I tried to ask her out, but I think I messed up again. She already had plans with a friend to celebrate something, so she's pretty busy. I tried asking her out anyway, but in doing it I didn't really indicate that I was interested in a date rather than just hanging out. She told me that she's still interested in that, but she'll be busy over the weekend, and we'll see each other on Monday so it's fine. To be honest I'm not quite sure how to feel. I suspect that the real answer here is that I still didn't actually indicate that I want to ask her out on a date, but it's not impossible in my mind that she already said yes and just asked me to delay it until she has free time, or that I was just rejected and haven't realized it (although if so, it was quite tactful all things considered).

Part of me wants to wait until Monday and just be a lot more straightforward and just say straight out that I'm asking her out on a date. The other part thinks that I've already basically done that, that I may well have already been given a yes or no, and to leave the ball in her court; if she follows up, great, if not, it wasn't meant to be.  It doesn't help that now I can't seem to properly remember exactly what she said. I know that at first, I thought that she had said yes, but not to an immediate date; nervous about that, I ask her at the end of class, and she says... something I can't clearly remember, but the general line was that she'd see me on Monday. It's the fact that I'm now forgetting what precisely happened that makes me want to just go up to her on Monday and say "Hey, would you like to go on a date with me?", possibly prefaced by "You know, I'm not really very good at this, so pardon me for being so blunt/forward, but..."

[Scriabin]

From what I've gathered she seems into you, she might only see you as a friend but you'll never know unless you try. Right now I think you should establish that you're interested in her on a romantic level. Using the word date when asking her out could be a way. I would keep pursuing her and not wait for her move.

As for the date itself just having coffee somewhere is nice or you could bring a thermos of coffee and go for a walk. Whatever happens you will have learned something new! Good luck! 

[NRDL]

If you feel she is treating this casually or doesn't show much inclination to the idea of romance, it would be recommended to just drop the idea.  Going from being liked as a friend to being liked as a potential romantic partner is DIFFICULT.  It'll always be really hard to tell what the other person is feeling.

IF you feel it's worth it, absolutely, ask again and be as clear as you can. 

IF not, it might be a better idea seeking a date with someone who doesn't already know you and have you registered as a friend in their mind. 

[misko27]

Argh why do you guys have to have different advice.

From what I've gathered she seems into you,

Then tell me how, so I can tell too!

she might only see you as a friend but you'll never know unless you try. Right now I think you should establish that you're interested in her on a romantic level. Using the word date when asking her out could be a way. I would keep pursuing her and not wait for her move.

Useful, and tempting. Again I'm really nervous about just asking... I don't know, "Hey you wanna go on a date?" or something, but I really do think that you are right that this is what I should do if I want to keep pursuing her.

If you feel she is treating this casually or doesn't show much inclination to the idea of romance, it would be recommended to just drop the idea.  Going from being liked as a friend to being liked as a potential romantic partner is DIFFICULT.  It'll always be really hard to tell what the other person is feeling.

Alas, the other side of the coin. In all honesty, I am sort of leaning in this direction. I'm extremely bad at this in general (I want to emphasize this as often as I can: I did not inherit my father's gift for understanding people and how they think, I inherited my mother's near-complete ignorance), but I do think it's possible or even likely that she is, as you say, treating this casually or not so inclined. But I confess that I don't know. Is there any way I can figure that out? Perhaps non-verbal signal? Or something *I* can do to signal?

IF you feel it's worth it, absolutely, ask again and be as clear as you can. 

Well that's fair. I still am tempted to do that, even if I suspect she thinks of me as a friend, just so I can have a straight answer. If she's not interested that's ok. And if she is... well then I better remember how to date. I've never actually gone on a proper date. The only date I've gone on was with my girlfriend AFTER we had a relationship (it became a relationship very quickly), and it was more of a night-out getting nice food then anything else. How do I put this? I've gone on a "date", but I've never actually "dated", if that makes any sense. The period of relationship between "single" and "established couple" is one I have zero experience with, and it worries me.

IF not, it might be a better idea seeking a date with someone who doesn't already know you and have you registered as a friend in their mind. 

Easier said than done! I'm not good at the whole flirting thing. As in I have zero experience with it, and my heart-rate flies upward just imagining it. Maybe that's really the cause of this problem to begin with, actually! I have no idea how to treat girls I'm interested in romantically vs. girls I'd like to be friends with, so I just treat all of them as friends because that's the only thing I know how to do. The idea of being flirty and forward to someone I don't know terrifies me. Seriously, nightmare scenarios galore. I know how to treat a girl I'm *already* in a relationship with, because I was in that position before, but getting there is... terrifying. I literally did not flirt with my first girlfriend at all until after we were a couple. Period. She did ALL the work of getting the relationship started. I just said yes to everything she said. In hindsight, it's amazing that I even ended up in a situation where I was in a relationship.

So hey, new question same as the old question: how does one flirt? Assume you are speaking to an absolute novice, and a very shy person at that. I'm really not shy when it comes to most things, but I'm extremely shy in new situations, and anytime I'm trying to flirt, asking someone on a date, or being on a date is a totally new situation for me. I just sorta need to know enough to get my foot in the door, so to speak, then I can learn on my own. Once I know sorta what I'm doing I can work from there, but in a brand new situation without advice or a plan, I will literally just not do anything if I'm not forced to. I did it for four straight years in high school despite no shortage of girls I was interested in, so I mean that seriously. I will absolutely do nothing if I let myself, and perhaps that's why I want to ask Sophia out anyway.