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Author Topic: Will engraving a smoothed aquifer stone wall cause it to leak?  (Read 3161 times)

PatrikLundell

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XArgon

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Re: Will engraving a smoothed aquifer stone wall cause it to leak?
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2016, 03:51:50 am »

Didn't try it, but unlikely.
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Repseki

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Re: Will engraving a smoothed aquifer stone wall cause it to leak?
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2016, 06:20:27 am »

Do you mean engrave, or carve into a fortification? (Some use those interchangeably since they both use the engraving skill. I think it might be Dwarven Madness...)

Engraving should be safe, since you're just adding a fancy picture. But carving it into a fortification will probably allow the aquifer tile on the far side to send water through.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Will engraving a smoothed aquifer stone wall cause it to leak?
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2016, 08:00:33 am »

I meant engrave, as making a series of holes into something meant to keep water in sounds like a rather bad idea unless you want to let the water out. The reason I ask about engraving is that it actually IS carving into your smoothed surface, so you do puncture the magic seal to some extent.
I've found first hand that first smoothing a set of tiles so they don't border any unsmoothed tiles and then digging them away (the inside of the last aquifer level of my staircase) caused water to pour out. That made me suspicious...
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Will engraving a smoothed aquifer stone wall cause it to leak?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2016, 12:51:20 pm »

Sounds like its time for some...

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PatrikLundell

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Re: Will engraving a smoothed aquifer stone wall cause it to leak?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2016, 02:04:49 pm »

I asked well before I intended to do it, as my fortress is still young, but since nobody could provide any answer I tried it immediately upon resuming (to allow save scumming if needed), and I see no signs of leakage (it should be flooding the living quarters otherwise...).
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Dame de la Licorne

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Re: Will engraving a smoothed aquifer stone wall cause it to leak?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2016, 02:19:19 pm »

I've found first hand that first smoothing a set of tiles so they don't border any unsmoothed tiles and then digging them away (the inside of the last aquifer level of my staircase) caused water to pour out.
It sounds like you may have dug out the walls directly underneath an aquifer-bearing layer.  Aquifers are the only water source that will leak through ceilings.

-Dame de la Licorne
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Will engraving a smoothed aquifer stone wall cause it to leak?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2016, 03:48:09 pm »

I've found first hand that first smoothing a set of tiles so they don't border any unsmoothed tiles and then digging them away (the inside of the last aquifer level of my staircase) caused water to pour out.
It sounds like you may have dug out the walls directly underneath an aquifer-bearing layer.  Aquifers are the only water source that will leak through ceilings.

-Dame de la Licorne
Nope. It wasn't the ceiling that leaked, but the smoothed walls themselves. The level above was completely dry (it was a level floor above those tiles, although I'd built walls on top of the tiles to the side at the northernmost row for a Portable Drain (PD) and a pump in the middle).
What I tried:

SSSSS
SXxXS
SsssS
SsssS
SXxXS
SSSSS

S = Smoothed wall. The corners are not needed, but look nicer.
X = Up/Down staircase. Walls for a PD above the two to the north.
x = Up/Down staircase, channeled out above to allow pumping, with the northernmost one covered by a floor for a PD.
s = The smoothed walls I wanted to remove. They started crying as soon as I bit into them.
It wasn't a major problem, as I just had to send a miner back up to crank the pump (and the remaining miner was buffeted a bit by the water, slowing things down), but it surprised me nonetheless.
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Dame de la Licorne

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Re: Will engraving a smoothed aquifer stone wall cause it to leak?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2016, 05:00:58 pm »

That is odd.  It certainly hasn't been my experience, and sounds like a bug.  What version did this happen in?

-Dame de la Licorne
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Will engraving a smoothed aquifer stone wall cause it to leak?
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2016, 12:10:31 am »

Did you dig those walls out or did you use channel/ramp desigation? With just dig, the aquifer ceiling remains above.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Will engraving a smoothed aquifer stone wall cause it to leak?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2016, 02:27:17 am »

I used 0.43.05 64 bit (it's a bit painful to do without DT and DFHack), and I dug the walls away by designating all 6 of the tiles for 'd'igging.
When done the natural ceiling/floor above did not produce any water (in the same manner that digging away a sand tile for the normal double-slit doesn't result in water pouring down from the ceiling).

The level above looked like this:
SSSSS
SWTWS
SwPwS
S_p_S
SXhXS
SSSSS

S = Smoothed wall, as before
W = Built wall replacing dug Up/Down staircase
T = Track stop dumping north with mine cart on constructed floor covering channeled hole
w = Built wall on top of natural floor
P = Impassable screw pump output tile
_ = Natural floor
p = Pump operator tile of screw pump
X = Dug Up/Down staircase
h = Channeled hole removing dug Up/Down staircase
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Will engraving a smoothed aquifer stone wall cause it to leak?
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2016, 02:34:00 am »

If not ceilings, it might also be due how engraving is directional - only 1 side of wall is engraved.

I've never had the 'fortune' of piercing a stone aquifer, so can't really comment.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Will engraving a smoothed aquifer stone wall cause it to leak?
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2016, 05:40:02 am »

@Fleeting Frames: The thread has been derailed slightly, so most of it concerns smoothing and then digging away aquifer stone.

Since I didn't receive any answers I tried engraving, and it works without leaking. Engraving directionality doesn't come into consideration, since there's only one side from which to engrave the smoothed walls of a shaft (barring a ghost engraver...).
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Gwolfski

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Re: Will engraving a smoothed aquifer stone wall cause it to leak?
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2016, 06:16:10 am »

but engravings can be viewed from all sides, can they not?

i dont get what you mean with directional...
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Will engraving a smoothed aquifer stone wall cause it to leak?
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2016, 06:45:14 am »

If you engrave individual bedrooms with 1-thick walls, it is highly likely the engraver will engrave both walls while standing inside one.

As a result, you can get bedrooms where half of them are higher quality level than the other. The engraving is on one side only.
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