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[Rolan7]

This is awful, I agree. The question is whether it is racism. And that depends on the definition. This is just a question of "this word can be used in subtly different ways," that's all. Prejudice against white people on the part of PoC, and violence based on that prejudice - nobody's denying that this exists, that it is wrong, that the criminals should be punished. It's just that some people don't define that as "racism".

Um...  Really?  Sorry, but I haven't really been exposed to that debate (I don't think I hang in the right circles).
Am I really reading that correctly?  An act that would otherwise be racism, shouldn't be called racism, if it's prejudice from a PoC against a white person?

That's terrifying...  I suppose I don't understand the issue, but what's the point?  Why separate out "Prejudice against white people on the part of PoC"?  Does it even have its own word?
Because saying "That's not racism, that's [long descriptive phrase]" is 1984 newspeak.  Killing an idea (black on white prejudice) by removing the word.

[Pwnzerfaust]

This is awful, I agree. The question is whether it is racism. And that depends on the definition. This is just a question of "this word can be used in subtly different ways," that's all. Prejudice against white people on the part of PoC, and violence based on that prejudice - nobody's denying that this exists, that it is wrong, that the criminals should be punished. It's just that some people don't define that as "racism".

It's only been redefined recently by social justice wanker types that want to excuse what they do without it being labeled racist. Fuck 'em.

Only idiots think institutional racism is the only racism.

[origamiscienceguy]

The only examples of institutional racial prejudice are pro-color and pro-native american.

Affirmative Action, etc.

[hector13]

The only examples of institutional racial prejudice are pro-color and pro-native american.

Affirmative Action, etc.

The lack of a /s is worrisome.

This is awful, I agree. The question is whether it is racism. And that depends on the definition. This is just a question of "this word can be used in subtly different ways," that's all. Prejudice against white people on the part of PoC, and violence based on that prejudice - nobody's denying that this exists, that it is wrong, that the criminals should be punished. It's just that some people don't define that as "racism".

If that is the case, those people are foolish. How is targeting someone specifically for their race not racism?

[origamiscienceguy]

Well, those are the only ones I can think of.There may be some arcane laws in some counties or soething.

[Neonivek]

No it is specifically that some groups (which I won't name to bog down this conversation)
-snip-
(Dang Purple Pumas!)

You could have just said Black Panthers instead of saying you weren't going to mention them, then making a reference to them anyway. It's okay to talk about them.

Well those are two separate groups... Though the one I am hinting at isn't racial.

[hector13]

Well, those are the only ones I can think of.There may be some arcane laws in some counties or soething.

Racism isn't just an active thing, cha know. It can happen in more passive and complex ways.

Non-whites don't have much representation in politics, they don't achieve as highly as white folks in education, don't have as much access to quality healthcare, to name but three. These are also down to institutional racism.

[Neonivek]

Well, those are the only ones I can think of.There may be some arcane laws in some counties or soething.

Racism isn't just an active thing, cha know. It can happen in more passive and complex ways.

Non-whites don't have much representation in politics, they don't achieve as highly as white folks in education, don't have as much access to quality healthcare, to name but three. These are also down to institutional racism.

Though I do find it more interesting how much more... racial the American elections are getting.

"We think minorities suck! Except Black People because in spite being a minority they have actual sway on politics"
"Come on Minorities flock to us! we are your saviors!"

[Loud Whispers]

Racism isn't just an active thing, cha know. It can happen in more passive and complex ways.

Non-whites don't have much representation in politics, they don't achieve as highly as white folks in education, don't have as much access to quality healthcare, to name but three. These are also down to institutional racism.

This is bullshit, you're not judging people based off of their merits as a person you're judging them as a race.

Your elite Unis are literally turning away next level Chinese and Japanese students just because of their race, if it's ok to discriminate against whites because they're privileged why is it ok to discriminate against asians who've been shat on throughout history? Is it really the case that in the USA the American dream is dead, and that hard work and industry is less important than having money and maximizing diversity points?

Even if you don't give a shit about idpol, actively discriminating against high achievement people will make your country worse.

[Rolepgeek]

Saying it's all institutional racism can ignore other issues at play that can be more readily solved (because I don't know if you noticed but just about everyone agrees racism is bad, and have agreed for the past decade, and yet these issues aren't much closer to being solved). For example: living in the inner city is bad for you. As in literally there is still higher concentrations of lead in the environment which lead to higher incidence rates of developmental problems.

This is awful, I agree. The question is whether it is racism. And that depends on the definition. This is just a question of "this word can be used in subtly different ways," that's all. Prejudice against white people on the part of PoC, and violence based on that prejudice - nobody's denying that this exists, that it is wrong, that the criminals should be punished. It's just that some people don't define that as "racism".

If that is the case, those people are foolish. How is targeting someone specifically for their race not racism?

The way I hear it -  and by 'the way I hear it', I mean literally what people in person tell me when I ask, including members of my family - is that racism has to be systemic and have institutional power behind it. It has to be prevailing, rather than an exception, or something.

I find that to be bullshit personally. 'Don't punch down' is a rather poor philosophy. I much prefer 'don't punch people'.

The only examples of institutional racial prejudice are pro-color and pro-native american.

Affirmative Action, etc.

False. Like, actually a falsifiable statement. Particularly in regards to policing, or colleges (particularly Ivy League). And while it includes being pro-white people, somewhat, it's much more anti-Asian and pro-Jewish, if you compare their numbers to the rate of things like National Merit Scholarships, or CalTech, which bases their stuff almost entirely off of academic merit, rather than the generalized mumbo-jumbo of holistic applications.

Speaking of, were you aware that 'holistic applications' were first introduced into colleges in order to make their processes of application acceptancy more opaque and obscure, so that they could deny Jews, who were doing marvelously on the academic front, entry? And now that it's shifted around after a lot of effort by organizations trying to fight anti-semitism, a disproportional amount of college staff is Jewish (which means you're more likely to have a connection to someone in the college who can help you if you're Jewish; it has nothing in particular to do with being Jewish in itself). Meanwhile, Caucasians get in because they are the majority of the population, African-Americans, Hispanics, and Latino/as get in because of Affirmative Action, and Asians get shafted because they aren't colored/oppressed enough to be considered worthy of being championed, nor are they white enough to be recognized for their achievements on their own.

Literally 40% of National Merit Scholars are Asian. If I remember my source correctly, anyway. Half-Asian people applying to college are putting 'white' on their application much more frequently now than they used to.

EDIT: And once again LW and I are in sync from opposite directions

I think that it is possible that Loud whispers may be my non-evil twin. If only because my career goals largely amount to 'mad scientist' if you think about them.

[Powder Miner]

After hearing my cousin and my aunt say "who cares about white people" at the exact same time in a political argument, and generally using the exact same lines maniac did at times before he got banned, it's come to the point that I've concluded that a large sector of the left is as a matter of fact racist -- something the "it's just prejudice if it's against whites" definition is concocted to justify.

This isn't the entirety of the left, to be sure, but it's a sector that it looks to me is growing to prominence. Some of my family members, the (white) kid at my college exclaiming "fuck white people!" during the election, people on the internet in general... I'm seeing more and more of this. When people bitch about identity politics, this is what they're bitching about.

(This is only tangentially related, I realize, but I've been musing on it for a while.)

[hector13]

Racism isn't just an active thing, cha know. It can happen in more passive and complex ways.

Non-whites don't have much representation in politics, they don't achieve as highly as white folks in education, don't have as much access to quality healthcare, to name but three. These are also down to institutional racism.

This is bullshit, you're not judging people based off of their merits as a person you're judging them as a race.

Don't rightly know if that was directed at me, 'cause I don't think I was doing what you say the "you" is doing, but your example was much better than mine

[Powder Miner]

I'm not honestly super concerned about the self-hatred thing -- if people want to hate themselves in order to feel moral about it, it's not really like we can stop them -- and that's even excluding people who consider themselves exceptions, as if race is a political choice, or something.

It's the hatred and dismissal of others that concerns me.

[Pwnzerfaust]

After hearing my cousin and my aunt say "who cares about white people" at the exact same time in a political argument, and generally using the exact same lines maniac did at times before he got banned, it's come to the point that I've concluded that a large sector of the left is as a matter of fact racist -- something the "it's just prejudice if it's against whites" definition is concocted to justify.

Who's Maniac?

[Loud Whispers]

Racism isn't just an active thing, cha know. It can happen in more passive and complex ways.

Non-whites don't have much representation in politics, they don't achieve as highly as white folks in education, don't have as much access to quality healthcare, to name but three. These are also down to institutional racism.

This is bullshit, you're not judging people based off of their merits as a person you're judging them as a race.

Don't rightly know if that was directed at me, 'cause I don't think I was doing what you say the "you" is doing, but your example was much better than mine

You (Americans)
Sorry if you thought I was calling you bullshit, I am bad at English sometimes