Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[PTTG??]

This isn't the entirety of the left, to be sure, but it's a sector that it looks to me is growing to prominence. Some of my family members, the (white) kid at my college exclaiming "fuck white people!" during the election, people on the internet in general... I'm seeing more and more of this. When people bitch about identity politics, this is what they're bitching about.

Indeed. I can barely believe that people are managing to say this isn't racism with a straight face. Perhaps if your definition of racism excludes things like this, it's a pretty shitty definition?

And it's a very sad thing when a black person says 'Fuck white people', or a white person says 'Fuck black people'. But it's a fucking tragedy when a white person says 'Fuck white people' (or the same for black people); what kind of ass-backward indoctrination are we putting our kids through to grow up with that kind of self-hatred, without any respect for themselves or their roots?

Powder Miner and you are the victims of propaganda. There is no significant movement in the left of the racism of which you speak. Yes, a small number of idiots exist. It is politically useful to exaggerate that into some kind of movement, in the same way that people were driven into a froth by fear of the civil rights movement of the past.

This propoganda is created to break up the great strength of modern liberalism: its ability to build coalitions, particularly of the poor. Working-class people of every kind and creed must be united in order to overthrow the monopolists.

[Loud Whispers]

EDIT: And once again LW and I are in sync from opposite directions

I think that it is possible that Loud whispers may be my non-evil twin. If only because my career goals largely amount to 'mad scientist' if you think about them.

Oh shit, this is some next level quantum political entanglement

[Sergarr]

After hearing my cousin and my aunt say "who cares about white people" at the exact same time in a political argument, and generally using the exact same lines maniac did at times before he got banned, it's come to the point that I've concluded that a large sector of the left is as a matter of fact racist -- something the "it's just prejudice if it's against whites" definition is concocted to justify.

Who's Maniac?

Pretty sure they meant "Mainiac", who was a rather openly high-liberal person, very active in Ameripol.

[Powder Miner]

After hearing my cousin and my aunt say "who cares about white people" at the exact same time in a political argument, and generally using the exact same lines maniac did at times before he got banned, it's come to the point that I've concluded that a large sector of the left is as a matter of fact racist -- something the "it's just prejudice if it's against whites" definition is concocted to justify.

Who's Maniac?

Mainiac, lost the i. Frequent, if sometimes flamy, poster.

This isn't the entirety of the left, to be sure, but it's a sector that it looks to me is growing to prominence. Some of my family members, the (white) kid at my college exclaiming "fuck white people!" during the election, people on the internet in general... I'm seeing more and more of this. When people bitch about identity politics, this is what they're bitching about.

Indeed. I can barely believe that people are managing to say this isn't racism with a straight face. Perhaps if your definition of racism excludes things like this, it's a pretty shitty definition?

And it's a very sad thing when a black person says 'Fuck white people', or a white person says 'Fuck black people'. But it's a fucking tragedy when a white person says 'Fuck white people' (or the same for black people); what kind of ass-backward indoctrination are we putting our kids through to grow up with that kind of self-hatred, without any respect for themselves or their roots?

Powder Miner and you are the victims of propaganda. There is no significant movement in the left of the racism of which you speak. Yes, a small number of idiots exist. It is politically useful to exaggerate that into some kind of movement, in the same way that people were driven into a froth by fear of the civil rights movement of the past.

This propoganda is created to break up the great strength of modern liberalism: its ability to build coalitions, particularly of the poor. Working-class people of every kind and creed must be united in order to overthrow the monopolists.

See, the problem with this is that it's hard to believe claims of propaganda when this is based off of what I've seen with my own eyes, not only on the internet but in real life. I watch what people say or what they write, firsthand, and it's enlightening.

[Spehss _]

I'm not honestly super concerned about the self-hatred thing -- if people want to hate themselves in order to feel moral about it, it's not really like we can stop them -- and that's even excluding people who consider themselves exceptions, as if race is a political choice, or something.

It's the hatred and dismissal of others that concerns me.

Self-hatred is just as bad if not worse in my opinion than hatred of others. Self-hatred can easily lead to self-destruction, either by suicide or other recklss decisions, or just by not caring about yourself and losing motivation or ambition and living a shitty life.

This propoganda is created to break up the great strength of modern liberalism: its ability to build coalitions, particularly of the poor. Working-class people of every kind and creed must be united in order to overthrow the monopolists.

You're starting to sound just a bit like a communist here.

[TempAcc]

Having also observed this in real life, in my country and outside of it, I very much doubt this is some sort of "propaganda". The left has swallowed the whole "its not racist if your target is white" thing pretty darn strongly, to the point it has already became officialy endorsed by several shitty media outlets (hello hello, MTV).

When you're making multiple leaps in interpretation in order to avoid calling very obvious racism as racism, then yea, you're probably being racist.

[Rolan7]

This isn't the entirety of the left, to be sure, but it's a sector that it looks to me is growing to prominence. Some of my family members, the (white) kid at my college exclaiming "fuck white people!" during the election, people on the internet in general... I'm seeing more and more of this. When people bitch about identity politics, this is what they're bitching about.

Indeed. I can barely believe that people are managing to say this isn't racism with a straight face. Perhaps if your definition of racism excludes things like this, it's a pretty shitty definition?

And it's a very sad thing when a black person says 'Fuck white people', or a white person says 'Fuck black people'. But it's a fucking tragedy when a white person says 'Fuck white people' (or the same for black people); what kind of ass-backward indoctrination are we putting our kids through to grow up with that kind of self-hatred, without any respect for themselves or their roots?

Powder Miner and you are the victims of propaganda. There is no significant movement in the left of the racism of which you speak. Yes, a small number of idiots exist. It is politically useful to exaggerate that into some kind of movement, in the same way that people were driven into a froth by fear of the civil rights movement of the past.

This propoganda is created to break up the great strength of modern liberalism: its ability to build coalitions, particularly of the poor. Working-class people of every kind and creed must be united in order to overthrow the monopolists.

I would love for it to just be the ramblings of some crazed edge-cases.  Like I said, there sure are a lot of people who say anything to attempt relevancy.

But BLM, the official organization, say stuff which is pretty damn close (and sometimes go farther in similar directions).  And while they aren't the Democratic party, they're also not meaningless fringe ramblers.  They have a lot of very real support, measured in real protesters.
(and also some especially crazy people who march under their name.  But the *official* lines are *also* pretty scary)

We need equality, not... this...

[TempAcc]

Doesn't it just make you want to say "I hate liberals"? At least, with the implication of "race-blind liberals who make the rest of us look bad."?

...No? I think people just just want other people to stop trying to relativize racism and realize that racism is a terrible thing regardless of who's the target.

[PTTG??]

I've actually seen and attended official BLM events. They are completely disconnected from the image of BLM portrayed by the media.

[Powder Miner]

It's worth noting there that some BLM chapters do officially say things about that bad -- the Wichita chapter histed an event to try to build trust between the police and the black community, and were promptly denounced by the DC chapter. But with a group like Black Lives Matter, it isn't as if if you've seen one you've seen them all -- BLM isn't a unitary group.

[Baffler]

It's like OWS in a lot of ways, in that the local flavour is different depending on where you are, and it doesn't really have a national leadership so much as it does a national consensus. Anyone can say that they are BLM and not exactly be lying, so the actual crazy types who would've acted alone or joined an explicitly extremist group like the NBPP pick up the label to get themselves a sense of legitimacy and poison the well as a whole.

[Spehss _]

We need equality, not... this...

Define equality?

[Powder Miner]

It's like OWS in a lot of ways, in that the local flavour is different depending on where you are, and it doesn't really have a national leadership so much as it does a national consensus. Anyone can say that they are BLM and not exactly be lying, so the actual crazy types who would've acted alone or joined an explicitly extremist group like the NBPP pick up the label to get themselves a sense of legitimacy and poison the well as a whole.

Isn't the lack of a true consensus what did Occupy in?

[Rolan7]

Doesn't it just make you want to say "I hate liberals"? At least, with the implication of "race-blind liberals who make the rest of us look bad."?

The latter.
I'm still a liberal.  I'm liberal on most issues, and pretty conservative on a few, but by overall ideology I'm definitely liberal.
Some of the "SJW" stuff, I actually think is worth listening to (at least personally).  But other stuff, like this...

[LCS] Rolan7 doesn't think they understand the issue.

We need equality, not... this...

Define equality?

Equal opportunity.

[Baffler]

It's like OWS in a lot of ways, in that the local flavour is different depending on where you are, and it doesn't really have a national leadership so much as it does a national consensus. Anyone can say that they are BLM and not exactly be lying, so the actual crazy types who would've acted alone or joined an explicitly extremist group like the NBPP pick up the label to get themselves a sense of legitimacy and poison the well as a whole.

Isn't the lack of a true consensus what did Occupy in?

That and extraordinarily hostile national media coverage. The MSM is very clearly a tool of the establishment against agitators of pretty much any stripe. BLM has this in common with OWS as well.

On the other hand, the response of the group as a whole against people who do terrorism in their name (like that guy who shot all those cops in Texas and got blown up by a bomb-defusal robot strapped with explosives, such irony) isn't nearly strong enough. They mostly just shuffle their feet or ignore the issue at best, or give a noncommittal sort of "we don't endorse the methods but..." at the worst, which gives the impression that it has their tacit support.