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[smjjames]

Can't say I'm surprised about this

CNN has a slightly more detailed article on it. Not surprising that they delayed it due to not being ready to talk about it, though they could have used the chance to talk about something and Trump loves to talk.

Also, he's apparently going to name his Secretary of State pick tomorrow morning sometime. Wouldn't be surprised if he pulls a troll move and picks someone besides Tillerson.

[martinuzz]

As for Martinuzz, he was kidding.

Indeed. In my usual shock and awe absurdism style.

[smjjames]

A Tillerson nomination is likely to die in commitee. It's also possible that Trump is being really shrewd and is doing his usual business strategy of putting up an extreme position or option and then moving down to a compromise position.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm not sure that's a workable strategy under these circumstances. Trump's opinion isn't the only one in play for nominations. Not only do many members of his """"""team"""""" openly have their own agendas, but if too many nominations are denied the RNC may come down from the clouds and tell Trump who he's going to nominate.

It happened with Pence, it could happen with this even more easily.

[smjjames]

Yeah, it may be a viable strategy when negotiating a business deal, but I don't see it being very viable politically, let alone diplomatically.

Either way, the nomination of Tillerson seems ill advised and a waste of time/political capital, I also remember that when they first met, the team hadn't even vetted him yet.

[hector13]

The tactic is called "door in the face"

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Speaking of which, have they nominated somebody who didn't want the job yet? That almost happened with Carson, but he relented. I know I've heard a lot of "you're going to work for us now, what do you mean 'no'" stories flying around about Trump and his people, but nothing solid.

[smjjames]

Mattis was a bit ambivalent about it, but he seems willing to take it on.

Picking someone who doesn't want the job probably doesn't happen all that often because they can just say no thanks while being considered. What's more likely are people who aren't a good fit for the job. Most of the 'no I don't really want that' I've heard publicly are White House staffer jobs, most of which don't need Senate confirmation.

I haven't really seen any stories like what you describe though, unless I'm not looking in the right places.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The stories I've heard are from the White House staff search, and I don't see what this has to do with Senate confirmation. Just the attitude the Trump maeT are taking.

[smjjames]

Every transition is different? *shrug*

Not surprised that there's infighting because that's the way that Trump likes to run his managers.

As is inevitable, word got leaked early (what, nobody could let Trump just announce it tomorrow?) that Tillerson IS the Secretary of State pick.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I haven't heard a lot about the historical pattern of staff hiring, but by all accounts this one is totally fucked. Allegedly, Trump was initially under the impression that most of Obama's staff would stay.

I still want to hear a Constitutional lawyer's answer as to if fully removing a President would also take the Veep. The whole Nixon/Ford incident seems to make it ambiguous.

[smjjames]

Friend of mine's been toying with the idea that the Russian investigation stuff is all an intentional way to get Trump impeached, to put Pence as president by the Republicans. It would be truly, absolutely hilarious (and also terrifying, but mostly hilarious) if the so-called "false flag" (yes, it is bogus, but this is a fanciful what if I'm going for here) was by none other than the Republicans themselves.

In all seriousness, this would just support what I was saying earlier.

That would require proof that Trump was directly complicit in the meddling (aside from acting like an asshole), which there doesn't seem to be any.

I haven't heard a lot about the historical pattern of staff hiring, but by all accounts this one is totally fucked. Allegedly, Trump was initially under the impression that most of Obama's staff would stay.

Could probably chalk that up to simple inexperience. They also got caught flatfooted initially as they thought they weren't going to win.

I wonder how many of his hires have been "suggestions" by Pence.

Theres likely some as there's a few establishment people in the Cabinet. Trump is following his own thing and also listening to other people. Tillerson doesn't seem like he'd be a Pence pick to me either.

[Culise]

I haven't heard a lot about the historical pattern of staff hiring, but by all accounts this one is totally fucked. Allegedly, Trump was initially under the impression that most of Obama's staff would stay.

I still want to hear a Constitutional lawyer's answer as to if fully removing a President would also take the Veep. The whole Nixon/Ford incident seems to make it ambiguous.

I'm certainly not a Constitutional lawyer, but why would an impeachment and conviction affect the Vice-President as well?  The VP isn't being charged with any crimes, unless they're being impeached separately, and "guilt by association" is not exactly an enshrined part of US law.  The only ambiguity as far as I'm aware regarding the Nixon/Ford case is that Nixon resigned rather than be convicted; Gerald Ford was Vice President by appointment after Agnew's own resignation due to his own crimes, which was in many respects a significant step in the Nixon impeachment prep work (better Nixon than Agnew).  Similarly in the Andrew Johnson case, absent a Vice President, a successful conviction would have resulted in the Presidency devolving on the next in line (Senate President pro tempore) until an election could be held in December that year, pursuant to the then-active Presidential Succession Act of 1792.  This actually resulted in allegations of conflict of interest at the time, as naturally, due to the Senate's role in upholding any impeachment, the Senate President pro tempore (Benjamin Wade) was an active participant whose vote could have swayed the conviction as well as a beneficiary of any successful conviction.

EDIT: Added a bit more detail regarding Andrew Johnson.

[Sergarr]

So there's some... disagreement between agencies in USA on what role did Russia have in elections. So far, FBI and something named ODNI have put their word that there isn't enough evidence to say that Russia preferentially supported Trump, as opposed to CIA, who've claimed that.

One can only imagine what kind of hidden power struggle is currently going on underneath all those statements...

[Shadowlord]

something named ODNI

James Clapper is the DNI. Perhaps you remember him?