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[Reelya]

Yeah, that article points out that kids are willing to take risks on the sports fields, so we should be ok with them taking risks down in a coal mine, too. After all, if the teenager has assessed the risks and decided they're ok with it, then letting them operate heavy machinery is no different to letting them play sports. It's perfectly logical according to Libertarian logic.

[Frumple]

How are we supposed to control a President like Trump, whose beliefs correspond to whoever has talked to him last? Put our agents into his close social circle? I don't think they accent non-Americans there, now don't they?

Accept, heh. Maybe. And hey, serg, if there's any group of non-americans that could manage it, your lot is probably the one :V

[TheBiggerFish]

How are we supposed to control a President like Trump, whose beliefs correspond to whoever has talked to him last? Put our agents into his close social circle? I don't think they accent non-Americans there, now don't they?

Accept, heh. Maybe. And hey, serg, if there's any group of non-americans that could manage it, your lot is probably the one :V

Except, uh, we don't want Russia influencing Trump, so...  That's not exactly best thing ever.

[smjjames]

And to top it all off, Mnuchin vows to roll back banking regulations and the biggest tax changes since Reagan.

Second banking crisis here we come

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Yeah, that article points out that kids are willing to take risks on the sports fields, so we should be ok with them taking risks down in a coal mine, too. After all, if the teenager has assessed the risks and decided they're ok with it, then letting them operate heavy machinery is no different to letting them play sports. It's perfectly logical according to Libertarian logic.

Ugh, libertarians are like the evil twins of anarchists, they're the reason people want oppressive governments, because the alternative appears to be this.

[smjjames]

2016 ain't over yet: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-electoral-college-231980

I know people are saying that it'll amount to nothing, but if there's anything to learn from this year, it's to expect the unexpected and possibly expect the worst (for Liberals anyway).

Meanwhile, a 538 chat oddly supports my theory that this whole thing is a ploy to get Pence into office. Or, at least, in control.

I agree with you on that: http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/30/politics/mike-pence-role-donald-trump-administration/index.html

[Sergarr]

Apparently Trump is now going to, instead of having intelligence briefings, go on a "Thank You Tour". I have no idea what the hell is up with that, but it can't be good.

[Shazbot]

The safety regulations to be safe in a factory take about 15 minutes to learn.  They pretty much amount to "Don't walk under things that are moving.  Don't hop fences that are taller than your knees.  Don't open panels unless you are trained to do so.  Wear appropriate PPE.  Don't look into the weld flash.

This is just dumb now. Safety regs are much more costly than you're making out. If a company screws up, that could cost millions - fines, lawsuits, PR problems etc. "15 minutes to learn" all the safety protocls is bullshit that only someone who has no idea of the liabilities real companies face could spout. Even without government regulations there's insurance to worry about. Those insurance guys are like hawks. Doing something silly like having teens working in a factory for 1 week after watching a 15 minute safety video is going to fuck with your insurance premiums like nothing else. At the very least, you'd need babysitters with the teens at all times, defeating the purpose of having them there. teens goof off. They're going to fuck up, and watching a 15 minute safety awareness video isn't going to turn them into adults who don't need constant supervision. (and someone will fuck up, so even the "good" kids need to be closely supervised).

If you ever want to know how well it would go over, ask a high school shop teacher. Their perpetual nervousness with their students is because they've usually seen how easy it is for even a responsible adult to just cut their fingers off in the span of a second. Most teenagers do not have enough experience with the realities of death and mutilation to truly adhere to hazardous work (nor should they).

And most teenagers are turning into crybully college brats and overweight couch-dwelling money sponge graduates, while women (who can't cook) gripe about men who can't work. Learn to bleed. I had an Iraq bomb technician (And Navajo. We called him Paco) teach me Pyro 101 in a lazy afternoon, after which I had a merry month of zero-fuck-you-thirty calls, fifty-caliber brass, stepping over dubiously exploded ordinance, mud, "welcome to Knox" hikes with the 101st, and pouring rain, all to pretend to kill convoys of Indiana National Guard. Fifteen an hour, best summer job of my life, 10/10 would splice the artillery sims to the air mortars and be a "civilian casualty" again. How was your summer vacation?

Also #NeverForgetMohammed, aka "Mo", who's only crime was passing a troop convoy on a dirt road. His termination was swift and merciless. May he live on forever doing something else, taking his "Mohammed" name tag and tearing the "Hammed" off to the embarassed laughter of all new co-workers everywhere.

[smjjames]

Apparently Trump is now going to, instead of having intelligence briefings, go on a "Thank You Tour". I have no idea what the hell is up with that, but it can't be good.

Just because he is travelling doesn't mean that he can't recieve the briefings. Pence has been doing them daily (or near daily) apparently.

He's also well ahead of where Obama's transition was at this point, so, he's not in a huge hurry.

The safety regulations to be safe in a factory take about 15 minutes to learn.  They pretty much amount to "Don't walk under things that are moving.  Don't hop fences that are taller than your knees.  Don't open panels unless you are trained to do so.  Wear appropriate PPE.  Don't look into the weld flash.

This is just dumb now. Safety regs are much more costly than you're making out. If a company screws up, that could cost millions - fines, lawsuits, PR problems etc. "15 minutes to learn" all the safety protocls is bullshit that only someone who has no idea of the liabilities real companies face could spout. Even without government regulations there's insurance to worry about. Those insurance guys are like hawks. Doing something silly like having teens working in a factory for 1 week after watching a 15 minute safety video is going to fuck with your insurance premiums like nothing else. At the very least, you'd need babysitters with the teens at all times, defeating the purpose of having them there. teens goof off. They're going to fuck up, and watching a 15 minute safety awareness video isn't going to turn them into adults who don't need constant supervision. (and someone will fuck up, so even the "good" kids need to be closely supervised).

If you ever want to know how well it would go over, ask a high school shop teacher. Their perpetual nervousness with their students is because they've usually seen how easy it is for even a responsible adult to just cut their fingers off in the span of a second. Most teenagers do not have enough experience with the realities of death and mutilation to truly adhere to hazardous work (nor should they).

And most teenagers are turning into crybully college brats and overweight couch-dwelling money sponge graduates, while women (who can't cook) gripe about men who can't work. Learn to bleed. I had an Iraq bomb technician (And Navajo. We called him Paco) teach me Pyro 101 in a lazy afternoon, after which I had a merry month of zero-fuck-you-thirty calls, fifty-caliber brass, stepping over dubiously exploded ordinance, mud, "welcome to Knox" hikes with the 101st, and pouring rain, all to pretend to kill convoys of Indiana National Guard. Fifteen an hour, best summer job of my life, 10/10 would splice the artillery sims to the air mortars and be a "civilian casualty" again. How was your summer vacation?

Also #NeverForgetMohammed, aka "Mo", who's only crime was passing a troop convoy on a dirt road. His termination was swift and merciless. May he live on forever doing something else, taking his "Mohammed" name tag and tearing the "Hammed" off to the embarassed laughter of all new co-workers everywhere.

The saltyness! Ouch! Ouuuuwwwww!

Though if you want to spend your summer at boot camp, that's your choice.

[Sprin]

Yeah, that article points out that kids are willing to take risks on the sports fields, so we should be ok with them taking risks down in a coal mine, too. After all, if the teenager has assessed the risks and decided they're ok with it, then letting them operate heavy machinery is no different to letting them play sports. It's perfectly logical according to Libertarian logic.

Ugh, libertarians are like the evil twins of anarchists, they're the reason people want oppressive governments, because the alternative appears to be this.

Leaving you alone vs Mass execution...

[Shadowlord]

Though if you want to spend your summer at boot camp, that's your choice.

I would literally die

and I do mean literally

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Yeah, that article points out that kids are willing to take risks on the sports fields, so we should be ok with them taking risks down in a coal mine, too. After all, if the teenager has assessed the risks and decided they're ok with it, then letting them operate heavy machinery is no different to letting them play sports. It's perfectly logical according to Libertarian logic.

Ugh, libertarians are like the evil twins of anarchists, they're the reason people want oppressive governments, because the alternative appears to be this.

Leaving you alone vs Mass execution...

Here's the issue with libertarianism.

There exist two main institutions of oppression - the state, and the corporation. The state provides minimal protection against the corporation, and at least pretends to do what the public wants. Think of it this way - there is a wolf who would like to eat us. So we stay with an abusive shepherd who beats us, but at least we're still alive, right? The wolf is the corporation, and the state is the shepherd. Now, I'm not saying that the corporation is worse than the state - that's tricky. The corporation is less influenced by public opinion, and is arguably better at being shady, but the state has an aura of authority and legitimacy.

Laissez-faire libertarianism is like killing the shepherd and then walking into the mouth of the wolf.

[Rolepgeek]

Dictatorships tend to be worse than free market capitalistic societies

Corporations are accountable to their customers, after all, and don't usually have the option of literally shoving large groups of people against the wall and shooting them in the head to dump into a mass grave. Sometimes, but usually only with the approval of the government.

It comes down to who you're more afraid of, which comes down to who you trust less, and who you think is more reliant on external approval. Big Government? Or Big Business? Either one can be dangerous, but if you play them off each other, they balance out. It's when they work together that shit gets real bad real fast, to be honest.

After all, the sheperd can do more with meat then he can with wool, and a sheepdog is useful to have around.

[Rockphed]

The safety regulations to be safe in a factory take about 15 minutes to learn.  They pretty much amount to "Don't walk under things that are moving.  Don't hop fences that are taller than your knees.  Don't open panels unless you are trained to do so.  Wear appropriate PPE.  Don't look into the weld flash.

This is just dumb now. Safety regs are much more costly than you're making out. If a company screws up, that could cost millions - fines, lawsuits, PR problems etc. "15 minutes to learn" all the safety protocls is bullshit that only someone who has no idea of the liabilities real companies face could spout. Even without government regulations there's insurance to worry about. Those insurance guys are like hawks. Doing something silly like having teens working in a factory for 1 week after watching a 15 minute safety video is going to fuck with your insurance premiums like nothing else. At the very least, you'd need babysitters with the teens at all times, defeating the purpose of having them there. teens goof off. They're going to fuck up, and watching a 15 minute safety awareness video isn't going to turn them into adults who don't need constant supervision. (and someone will fuck up, so even the "good" kids need to be closely supervised).

If you ever want to know how well it would go over, ask a high school shop teacher. Their perpetual nervousness with their students is because they've usually seen how easy it is for even a responsible adult to just cut their fingers off in the span of a second. Most teenagers do not have enough experience with the realities of death and mutilation to truly adhere to hazardous work (nor should they).

And most teenagers are turning into crybully college brats and overweight couch-dwelling money sponge graduates, while women (who can't cook) gripe about men who can't work. Learn to bleed. I had an Iraq bomb technician (And Navajo. We called him Paco) teach me Pyro 101 in a lazy afternoon, after which I had a merry month of zero-fuck-you-thirty calls, fifty-caliber brass, stepping over dubiously exploded ordinance, mud, "welcome to Knox" hikes with the 101st, and pouring rain, all to pretend to kill convoys of Indiana National Guard. Fifteen an hour, best summer job of my life, 10/10 would splice the artillery sims to the air mortars and be a "civilian casualty" again. How was your summer vacation?

Also #NeverForgetMohammed, aka "Mo", who's only crime was passing a troop convoy on a dirt road. His termination was swift and merciless. May he live on forever doing something else, taking his "Mohammed" name tag and tearing the "Hammed" off to the embarassed laughter of all new co-workers everywhere.

I wish I had had that option available.  I would still have gone to college, but I think I would have had a much better understanding of how the world works.

[Shadowlord]

Dictatorships tend to be worse than free market capitalistic societies

Corporations are accountable to their customers, after all, and don't usually have the option of literally shoving large groups of people against the wall and shooting them in the head to dump into a mass grave. Sometimes, but usually only with the approval of the government.

It comes down to who you're more afraid of, which comes down to who you trust less, and who you think is more reliant on external approval. Big Government? Or Big Business? Either one can be dangerous, but if you play them off each other, they balance out. It's when they work together that shit gets real bad real fast, to be honest.

After all, the sheperd can do more with meat then he can with wool, and a sheepdog is useful to have around.

Do you think Comcast is accountable to their customers? Our government already isn't preventing local monopolies, what do you think would happen in an even more libertarian society?