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[smjjames]

I'm not sure what defines a college as liberal here either. Might need some conservative perspective on this one.

Rockphed is right about the research though, you'd have to look at many colleges, big and small, world famous and only locally (or just within some circles) well known, rich and poor, Big City small town, urban and rural, coastal and inland, north and south, east and west (of the Mississippi), and any other relevant variables you can think of to get a good view of how things got the way they are.

There's also the whole thing where conservative students probably aren't as dominated by their feefees and wanting to get a degree in mayan basket weaving theory or whatever nonsense is in these days.

'feefees'?

[miauw62]

probably a pejorative way to refer to feelings? because feelings are for feminine wusses, REAL MEN are bastions of stoïcism with rolling muscles and problems expressing their emotions without violence.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

There's also the whole thing where conservative students probably aren't as dominated by their feefees and wanting to get a degree in mayan basket weaving theory or whatever nonsense is in these days.

Hey, I'll have you know that Art History and Feminist Studies are very important fields! If people want to go into them, by all means, whatever makes you happy...

...would you like fries with that?

I'm not sure what defines a college as liberal here either. Might need some conservative perspective on this one.

Rockphed is right about the research though, you'd have to look at many colleges, big and small, world famous and only locally (or just within some circles) well known, rich and poor, Big City small town, urban and rural, coastal and inland, north and south, east and west, and any other variables you can think of to get a good view of how things got the way they are.

Wait, you mean we don't know?! YES! Something to figure out! Time to do some !!science!! !

There's also the whole thing where conservative students probably aren't as dominated by their feefees and wanting to get a degree in mayan basket weaving theory or whatever nonsense is in these days.

'feefees'?

Feelings. Apparently conservatives don't have feelings, makes sense to me

probably a pejorative way to refer to feelings? because feelings are for feminine wusses, REAL MEN are bastions of stoïcism with rolling muscles and problems expressing their emotions.

Ahaha, yes, they're all sexist /s

[Shadowlord]

What are we talking about? It looks like the pages upon pages of YOU'RE A SMUG LIEBRAL and YOU'RE MAKING ME ANGRY YOU WOULDN'T LIKE ME WHEN I'M ANGRY have finally stopped.

Spoiler: I didn't read any of it because ugggghhhh

[McTraveller]

...it would explain why more liberals are college students, but not why more college students are liberal.

I would hypothesize most students consider themselves liberal primarily because of social issues, not because of the full spectrum of socioeconomic thought.

[Shadowlord]

Re: conservatives, once more with feeling,

* Shadowlord feels like pointing out, feelingly, that anger, hatred, and rage are all feelings.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

What are we talking about? It looks like the pages upon pages of YOU'RE A SMUG LIEBRAL and YOU'RE MAKING ME ANGRY YOU WOULDN'T LIKE ME WHEN I'M ANGRY have finally stopped.

Spoiler: I didn't read any of it because ugggghhhh

LW stopped talking to me, I realized that most people weren't attacking me and that I didn't have the best viewpoint from which to observe liberalism, I realized that LW was trolling, and the conversation moved on. Now we're discussing liberalism in colleges, and trying to figure out why things are the way they are.

ugggggghhh I agree, I'd hate that British troll if it weren't half my fault and if he didn't make NECROBACON

...it would explain why more liberals are college students, but not why more college students are liberal.

I would hypothesize most students consider themselves liberal primarily because of social issues, not because of the full spectrum of socioeconomic thought.

So not economically liberal, but socially liberal? That's a useful piece of the puzzle, yes. And why would college students be more socially liberal? Perhaps because it is change, it is rebellion, or at least that's how they see it. College students are young, younger people are more liberal.

Interestingly, that Pew article notes how the more educated a liberal is, the more they agree with accepted science, but the educamation of a conservative has no effect or a negative effect on how much they agree with accepted science. I could understand the latter, but not the former. Wouldn't it do something?

Re: conservatives, once more with feeling,

* Shadowlord feels like pointing out, feelingly, that anger, hatred, and rage are all feelings.

But it's not a smug feeling, it's an outraged feeling! There's a big difference

On reddit:

Of course '[human] rights' are a liberal idea

what the fuck, dude

He was an anarcho-capitalist IIRC.

[smjjames]

Eh, Reddit is Reddit....

[McTraveller]

Here is a good example of a "liberal" retirement plan that goes against my economic sensibilities.  The goal is laudable - make retirement plans more accessible to more people.  The problem is, it does a couple of really annoying things: it adds regulatory barriers to entry for new businesses (as small as 5 employees!?), it doesn't actually guarantee any kind of actual return - especially if it's something like a 401(k), and it assumes the way to fix having enough money in retirement is to force people to save money, rather than figuring out how to make it so people don't need so much money in retirement in the first place.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/blue-state-plan-fix-retirement-100012731.html

It's also a good example of something that, if you asked any college student (liberal or conservative or otherwise) to weigh its pros and cons, you'd probably just get blank stares.

[Loud Whispers]

LW stopped talking to me, I realized that most people weren't attacking me and that I didn't have the best viewpoint from which to observe liberalism, I realized that LW was trolling, and the conversation moved on. Now we're discussing liberalism in colleges, and trying to figure out why things are the way they are.
ugggggghhh I agree, I'd hate that British troll if it weren't half my fault and if he didn't make NECROBACON

Apologies for not replying, I was focused on writing something about the merits of Chinese silk-damask dresses in the Georgian era and seeing off a friend to Ameriland

I should also add I wasn't trolling and I'm rather surprised to find you hating me, or close to it. What occurred?

I was pretending to be a smug liberal.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Shadowlord]

Here is a good example of a "liberal" retirement plan that goes against my economic sensibilities.  The goal is laudable - make retirement plans more accessible to more people.  The problem is, it does a couple of really annoying things: it adds regulatory barriers to entry for new businesses (as small as 5 employees!?), it doesn't actually guarantee any kind of actual return - especially if it's something like a 401(k), and it assumes the way to fix having enough money in retirement is to force people to save money, rather than figuring out how to make it so people don't need so much money in retirement in the first place.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/blue-state-plan-fix-retirement-100012731.html

It's also a good example of something that, if you asked any college student (liberal or conservative or otherwise) to weigh its pros and cons, you'd probably just get blank stares.

I'm a "liberal" in that I seem to be to the left of the Democratic party, and this sounds like a solution in search of a problem. Requiring companies to offer 401ks won't do anything to help people who literally can't even afford to save because they don't make enough money, live paycheck to paycheck, etc. Also won't help anyone who doesn't have or can't find a job.

P.S. I'd actually rather use the label "progressive" for myself.

[Luke_The_Hungry]

There's also the whole thing where conservative students probably aren't as dominated by their feefees and wanting to get a degree in mayan basket weaving theory or whatever nonsense is in these days.

Hey, I'll have you know that Art History and Feminist Studies are very important fields! If people want to go into them, by all means, whatever makes you happy...

...would you like fries with that?

On the other side of that, should subjects like History, Civics, Government, and Law be ignored if you're not going to be a historian, lawyer, or politician? Information is itself worth pursuing, and I would argue that the problem is not people choosing to learn something that isn't just practical skill, it's that our worth is connected only to our paychecks.

[Loud Whispers]

On the other side of that, should subjects like History, Civics, Government, and Law be ignored if you're not going to be a historian, lawyer, or politician? Information is itself worth pursuing, and I would argue that the problem is not people choosing to learn something that isn't just practical skill, it's that our worth is connected only to our paychecks.

Law is a bad example there, as it is highly employable outside of its vocational applications in things like business, secretarial and administrative work

Information is itself worth pursuing, but why? I hold the pursuit of knowledge and its retention, passing down to next generations and so on to be of inherent worth and paramount importance, but articulating why this is important is considerably more difficult. Then again, I think I answered my own question, passing down our information to the next generation and building upon that data is intrinsically valuable. Yeah, that seems right.

Also what is more of issue, the reality that time spent on a degree (a costly endeavor in time and resources) must provide return in employability or the life of the student in question is ruined - I am more concerned with students who do not develop practical skills, never learn practical trades, and far from developing into a well-rounded individual put all their eggs into one academic basket that closes too many doors at once. And good fucking god, government politics should be studied to ensure everyone who studied government politics does not become a politician, there is nothing more damaging than a wealthy child who lives in an insular academic world then graduates into leading a nation without ever having experienced what the real world is or how actual people live. I am of the view that politicians should be drawn from those who work; those who lead - not those whose families were wealthy enough to send their sons and daughters to prep school. I know that's not your intended point, so pardon the venting.

What would be interesting if there was more affordable education, so that in addition to gaining practical skills, high demand skills one could pursue academic interests without having to be wealthy

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

LW stopped talking to me, I realized that most people weren't attacking me and that I didn't have the best viewpoint from which to observe liberalism, I realized that LW was trolling, and the conversation moved on. Now we're discussing liberalism in colleges, and trying to figure out why things are the way they are.
ugggggghhh I agree, I'd hate that British troll if it weren't half my fault and if he didn't make NECROBACON

Apologies for not replying, I was focused on writing something about the merits of Chinese silk-damask dresses in the Georgian era and seeing off a friend to Ameriland

I should also add I wasn't trolling and I'm rather surprised to find you hating me, or close to it. What occurred?

You occurred, insulted me profusely, then made a bunch of fallacies. I'm not sure which is worse. But we're moving on, so -

I was pretending to be a smug liberal.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh, come on, this again? I have two explanations that may sway you from your incessant demonization:

• Poe's Law, except for smug liberals.
• Get a sense of humor you British basement-dweller. It wasn't that funny, but... imagine that I had said WAKE UP SHEEPLE, STEEL FUEL CAN'T MELT JET BEAMS instead. You'd know that I was kidding, right? The issue with pretending-to-be-a-smug-liberal-as-seen-by-LW is that a. it's too similar to liberals, it's something that people could actually say seriously and b. he already sees me as a smug liberal. Too close to home basically.

Basically, when in doubt, assume that I'm being tongue-in-cheek. You'll usually be right.  ▲√╕

There's also the whole thing where conservative students probably aren't as dominated by their feefees and wanting to get a degree in mayan basket weaving theory or whatever nonsense is in these days.

Hey, I'll have you know that Art History and Feminist Studies are very important fields! If people want to go into them, by all means, whatever makes you happy...

...would you like fries with that?

On the other side of that, should subjects like History, Civics, Government, and Law be ignored if you're not going to be a historian, lawyer, or politician? Information is itself worth pursuing, and I would argue that the problem is not people choosing to learn something that isn't just practical skill, it's that our worth is connected only to our paychecks.

Oh definitely, I was just noting that Art History isn't likely to bring in the cash, or a job for that matter. And that is a problem, because there are many forms of knowledge that don't result in immediate money. The solution is clearly anarcho-socialism.

On the other side of that, should subjects like History, Civics, Government, and Law be ignored if you're not going to be a historian, lawyer, or politician? Information is itself worth pursuing, and I would argue that the problem is not people choosing to learn something that isn't just practical skill, it's that our worth is connected only to our paychecks.

Law is a bad example there, as it is highly employable outside of its vocational applications in things like business, secretarial and administrative work

Information is itself worth pursuing, but why? I hold the pursuit of knowledge and its retention, passing down to next generations and so on to be of inherent worth and paramount importance, but articulating why this is important is considerably more difficult. Then again, I think I answered my own question, passing down our information to the next generation and building upon that data is intrinsically valuable. Yeah, that seems right.

Also what is more of issue, the reality that time spent on a degree (a costly endeavor in time and resources) must provide return in employability or the life of the student in question is ruined - I am more concerned with students who do not develop practical skills, never learn practical trades, and far from developing into a well-rounded individual put all their eggs into one academic basket that closes too many doors at once. And good fucking god, government politics should be studied to ensure everyone who studied government politics does not become a politician, there is nothing more damaging than a wealthy child who lives in an insular academic world then graduates into leading a nation without ever having experienced what the real world is or how actual people live. I am of the view that politicians should be drawn from those who work; those who lead - not those whose families were wealthy enough to send their sons and daughters to prep school. I know that's not your intended point, so pardon the venting.

What would be interesting if there was more affordable education, so that in addition to gaining practical skills, high demand skills one could pursue academic interests without having to be wealthy

Leaders coming from the workers instead of the rich elite who got their degrees by virtue of inheritance? That sounds great, LW. I'm totally agreeing with you. Do you know why? It's because you aren't directing any personal attacks at me, and so I'm able to consider your points instead of getting angry and defensive. I never thought that I would be able to teach a non-troll about Internet etiquette, but here I am, explaining that insulting and attacking people is not a good idea. *sigh* My five-year-old brother could tell you that.

[Shadowlord]

I saw a study* that said that conservatives couldn't discern satire from seriousness and you know it's true because science said so

* actually an article about a