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[miauw62]

Well duh. If there are two voters, they should have less political power than three voters. And so on.

that's not the point thats being made though

[wierd]

Tyranny of the majority, is still tyranny.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

It is what enabled the soviet holodomor.  The ethnic russians outnumbered those damned uppity ukrainians, who refused to obey.

[Sergarr]

What the wikipedia article does not explain well, is that a major contributing factor of the holodomor was the forced eviction of Ukrainian farmers, with a land-grab by ethnic russians (from cities) who did not know how to properly work those farms, in addition to the state mandated crops.

The callousness of that eviction (the Ukrainians were expected to just die.), echoes the kind frumple off-handedly tendered above.

The holodomor is really what turned the former USSR into a backward shithole where people literally had to steal to have food.

1) Why does everyone forget that the Kazakhs have died the most in Holodomor, percentage-wise (the staggering 38% of them, in fact)? Is it because they're mostly filthy pro-Russia supporters now, and thus they are considered as totally worthless and deserving to die off?
2) I'm pretty sure that my parents did not have to steal to have food, and they lived in USSR. Um, okay?

[Shadowlord]

When you have two sides who refuse to cooperate or compromise, and have gerrymandered their districts to the extent that they're being pushed further and further apart by their constituents as a result, you're gonna end up with tyranny of the something (or gridlock).

[McTraveller]

So a question I have is - if city dwellers could magically make this automatic equipment that can do all agriculture, why don't we have it today? Why isn't food "free"?

I wouldn't mind that actually.

Although personally I prefer to live where there are green fields; cities feel wrong to me. I don't like it as it is that I live in an area which is rezoning all its farmland for subdivisions and commercial shopping centers. Sadly though money is kind of king, which means my opinion gets drowned out.  Maybe (well, not for a couple years perhaps) the EPA would start limiting land conversion?

Also - just as tyranny of the majority is tyranny, so is tyranny of the minority.  Or more accurately: tyranny is tyranny.

[Neonivek]

When you have two sides who refuse to cooperate or compromise, and have gerrymandered their districts to the extent that they're being pushed further and further apart by their constituents as a result, you're gonna end up with tyranny of the something (or gridlock).

The problem is that they are fixing the democratic process (err republic process I guess) and they want to fix it... But utterly refuse to give up what they have done to do so.

[wierd]

No joke, but giving short shrift to the consequences of the suggested solutions is pathological. 

Sergarr-- Not all localities in the former USSR were the same. Some required more criminality than others.  I am pretty sure your folks hoarded and or, stole, toilet paper, for instance.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

When you have two sides who refuse to cooperate or compromise, and have gerrymandered their districts to the extent that they're being pushed further and further apart by their constituents as a result, you're gonna end up with tyranny of the something (or gridlock).

The problem is that they are fixing the democratic process (err republic process I guess) and they want to fix it... But utterly refuse to give up what they have done to do so.

ARMOK DAMN IT

IT IS THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS

AMERICA IS A DEMOCRACY AND A FEDERAL THING AND A CONSTITUTIONAL THING AND A REPUBLIC ALL AT ONCE

GET IT RIGHT

[Shadowlord]

So a question I have is - if city dwellers could magically make this automatic equipment that can do all agriculture, why don't we have it today? Why isn't food "free"?

I wouldn't mind that actually.

Although personally I prefer to live where there are green fields; cities feel wrong to me. I don't like it as it is that I live in an area which is rezoning all its farmland for subdivisions and commercial shopping centers. Sadly though money is kind of king, which means my opinion gets drowned out.  Maybe (well, not for a couple years perhaps) the EPA would start limiting land conversion?

Also - just as tyranny of the majority is tyranny, so is tyranny of the minority.  Or more accurately: tyranny is tyranny.

You mean tractors and shit? Or roomba-for-your-farms? Is that a thing?

In any case, even if you had planting and farming robots, that did all that for you, food still wouldn't be free because it still has costs:
1. equipment (them robots won't be cheap)
2. fuel (or power, to run them)
3. seeds
4. labor, if you have to hire anyone to help (e.g. with animals)
5. refridgeration, shipping, etc (this might be paid by whoever you're selling your stuff to to get it to stores)
6. various other costs
7. you have to be able to feed your family, unless you expect them to just grow their own food, give the rest away, and hope there isn't a drought or early frost or w/e

[wierd]

Farming is getting pretty close to fully automated now.  The farms still need caretakers to make sure the equipment is running, and ensure raw material is getting to the machines.

However, complex machines are complex. Not just anyone has any business fixing it, or running it.  You are just making very specialized and essential labor, and demanding that that specialization not get collateral pay.

Further, due to the same-said essentialness and reduced population count, you make these people too essential to have a voice. The only power they have to exercise redress of greivances is strike.

Of course, say some of the people here-- we should just kick them out and off their lands, and replace them (with more people we will promptly ignore afterward.)

[Shadowlord]

I'd like to redirect your attention back to the NYT article that I linked and quoted.

> Dozens of major regulations passed recently by the Obama administration — including far-reaching changes on health care, consumer protections and environmental safety — could be undone with the stroke of a pen by Donald J. Trump and the Republican-controlled Congress starting in January, thanks to a little-used law that dates back to 1996.
> And it comes with a scorched-earth kicker: If the law is used to strike down a rule, the federal agency that issued it is barred from enacting similar regulation again in the future.

Or, Reasons Why I Still Think Voting Trump On The Basis Of Part But Not All Of His Policies Was A Bad Idea And Voted For Hillary Myself To Try To Prevent This Shit From Happening

[McTraveller]

Well, I did say "free", not actually free... but food is actually pretty inexpensive as it is.

So it's not so much really about food production.  The bigger issue is really what do you do with all those people that are being marginalized? Even if - and especially - if you don't agree with the views of the marginalized group?

[wierd]

1996 you say?

who was president then?  Oh, right-- Clinton.  The same guy who repealed glass-stegal, because "we didnt need it anymore".

[Neonivek]

Actually some farmers have found that machines and automation for farms (like a tractor) are in fact more expensive then simply hiring more farm hands.

[wierd]

That comes from them not being ALLOWED to repair said equipment themselves.

See for example, the greedy bullshit of the DMCA, and its exercise on the control systems inside modern farm equipment.

https://www.wired.com/2015/02/new-high-tech-farm-equipment-nightmare-farmers/

http://modernfarmer.com/2016/07/right-to-repair/

http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2015/08/17/432601480/diy-tractor-repair-runs-afoul-of-copyright-law