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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1419432 times)

alway

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #12135 on: November 12, 2016, 12:54:21 pm »

A minor war with Iran or similar wouldn't actually have a uniting effect; quite the opposite in fact. ISIS is a more stabilizing war, since they're more of a gang than a country full of innocents; but they also won't be around in enough numbers to be more than a boogeyman. Russia would be another one, since they've clearly been launching cyberattacks against the US and I could see Trump wanting to prove that he didn't depend on them for anything for ego's sake. Most others are off the table as potentially stabilizing wars, as there is still a very strong opposition that would shout about each and every atrocity committed.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #12136 on: November 12, 2016, 12:55:02 pm »

I don't know what is more entertaining. This thread with "USA is becoming neo-nazi country" kind of mood or Ukrainian internet with "We are so fucked, Trump will side with Putin"
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alway

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #12137 on: November 12, 2016, 12:58:31 pm »

The two would pretty much go hand in hand. For all the talk about enemies being neo-nazis, the Russian government is actually quite far-right from what I can tell, and so would be natural allies of any fascists who didn't explicitly support the historically hated 1940s german nazism.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 01:02:19 pm by alway »
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Sergarr

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #12138 on: November 12, 2016, 01:03:07 pm »

I don't know what is more entertaining. This thread with "USA is becoming neo-nazi country" kind of mood or Ukrainian internet with "We are so fucked, Trump will side with Putin"
That depends, do Ukrainians want to build the Civilization-Separating Wall on their Western border now, too?

The two would pretty much go hand in hand. For all the talk about enemies being neo-nazis, the Russian government is actually quite far-right from what I can tell, and so would be natural allies of any neo-nazis who didn't explicitly support the historically hated 1940s german nazism.
What does "far-right" mean in this context, though? Its domestic policies are pretty center-left, with focus on socialistic policies and state-based capitalism.

And its current foreign policy is not all that different from USSR's one.

Do you think that USSR was a far-right state, too?
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Rolan7

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #12139 on: November 12, 2016, 01:06:10 pm »

On a hopeful (maybe naive) note, there's an official whitehouse.gov petition to get Merrick Garland's appointment through.  Congress has "delayed" for 241 days, in clear breach of all precedent.  Apparently there's a legal argument that they've waived their right.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obama-can-appoint-merrick-garland-to-the-supreme-court-if-the-senate-does-nothing/2016/04/08/4a696700-fcf1-11e5-886f-a037dba38301_story.html

Here's the petition:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/appoint-garland-now-senate-has-waived-its-rights

There's an equivalent petition here with less votes, but a bit better written.  I signed both:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/we-people-ask-president-obama-immediately-appoint-merrick-garland-supreme-court

It probably won't do anything, but what if it does?  All it takes is an email address, no registration (though you do need to confirm your email).  Even if you support Trump, do you trust him to appoint a supreme court justice?  Merrick Garland is no radical, only slightly left of center.
Besides, he'll probably get to replace 2 more anyway (83 and 78 years old).  Obama should be able to appoint this one - we elected him twice.
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alway

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #12140 on: November 12, 2016, 01:20:54 pm »

The two would pretty much go hand in hand. For all the talk about enemies being neo-nazis, the Russian government is actually quite far-right from what I can tell, and so would be natural allies of any neo-nazis who didn't explicitly support the historically hated 1940s german nazism.
What does "far-right" mean in this context, though? Its domestic policies are pretty center-left, with focus on socialistic policies and state-based capitalism.

And its current foreign policy is not all that different from USSR's one.

Do you think that USSR was a far-right state, too?
Blasphemy laws, bans on even discussing homosexuality in a positive light, extremely high income inequality more or less enforced by the state. On top of that, I get the impression (unknown as to whether it's correct or not, given the limited sources/reading I've done on the matter) that the ability of the Russian government to make its citizens competitive in markets other than energy/material exports has been lacking lately, with the result being the current economic problems due to a downturn in oil prices and no major service sector to make up for it.

(comparison on the third point) http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/10/10/231446353/if-you-think-wealth-disparity-is-bad-here-look-at-russia

So far as I can tell, they would be a natural ally of US Republicans in their current form.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #12141 on: November 12, 2016, 01:34:44 pm »

Well, what score did United Russia got at the last elections? I mean, I'm just saying that as long as nothing truly catastrophic happens, it wouldn't take much for Trump to lock in a re-election if he manage to threaten the media into submission.

I don't know, but I believe Putin got 146% of the vote. :P

Thanks for the petition links, Rolan!
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Sergarr

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #12142 on: November 12, 2016, 01:44:47 pm »

Blasphemy laws, bans on even discussing homosexuality in a positive light, extremely high income inequality more or less enforced by the state.
That's not far-right, I'm pretty sure. It could be said to be right-wing in some of its internal policy, yes, but its internal rhetoric is overall very lefty.

Just recently, some person in the government got massive scorn in the Russian social media for saying that not all Russians need effectively free higher education in order to be successful in life.

Quote
On top of that, I get the impression (unknown as to whether it's correct or not, given the limited sources/reading I've done on the matter) that the ability of the Russian government to make its citizens competitive in markets other than energy/material exports has been lacking lately, with the result being the current economic problems due to a downturn in oil prices and no major service sector to make up for it.
That's a generic Russian problem throughout the ages, not the government's one. We really don't like to engage in a kind of social activities that are necessary to make a non-raw-product economy internationally competitive. Been that way since the formation of the Russian people.

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So far as I can tell, they would be a natural ally of US Republicans in their current form.
The Republicans would be probably horrified at the idea of free healthcare being considered normal. Same with state-subsidized higher education, and largely standardized - and also mostly religion-free, last time I checked - elementary and middle school education.
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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #12143 on: November 12, 2016, 01:48:53 pm »

I saw someone who lives in an autocracy suggest that ignoring the autoratic tendencies Trump has shown is a bad idea. Expect him to do the awful shit he says, hope for the better sure, but there's no real precedent for expecting him to suddenly start listening to people and making good decisions.

Also signed both petitions.
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Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #12144 on: November 12, 2016, 01:53:39 pm »

Which autocracy would that be?
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #12145 on: November 12, 2016, 01:54:47 pm »

I've got a petition in my sig right now, and I signed both of Rolan's.
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Vilanat

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #12146 on: November 12, 2016, 02:00:19 pm »

You would need 60 million American signatures on that petition for it to actually start mean something.

And even if you do manage to get that, and by some weird chanced occurrence enough electorates betray their party and vote for her, i don't think you actually understand how bad that would be for the U.S.
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nenjin

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #12147 on: November 12, 2016, 02:17:22 pm »

You don't need to repel the First, you can just stuff SCOTUS with loyalist that won't struck down a libel extension. Or he could get the government's statistics arms to publish more or less phoney results, Argentine-style.

Supreme Court picks are also notoriously independent once they are on the bench.
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Sheb

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #12148 on: November 12, 2016, 02:57:35 pm »

You don't need to repel the First, you can just stuff SCOTUS with loyalist that won't struck down a libel extension. Or he could get the government's statistics arms to publish more or less phoney results, Argentine-style.

Supreme Court picks are also notoriously independent once they are on the bench.

Just wait for Justice Ivanka Trump.
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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Post-Apocalypse
« Reply #12149 on: November 12, 2016, 02:59:05 pm »

While I'm sure Trump will try to jump start his dynasty at some point, he seems to be facing resistance on the subject. I know, know that if I noticed Ivanka was just old enough to be Veep that Trump must have as well.
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