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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1412370 times)

Starver

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #7755 on: October 19, 2016, 04:44:25 pm »

Indeed. (@smjjames) The warhawk bit was actually my representation of my friend's views on her (to a degree I don't overly disagree with). Then I spoiled it by representing my friend's views on Trump with my own personal commentary added that he wouldn't so fully agree with...
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #7756 on: October 19, 2016, 04:48:02 pm »

I'm actually sitting right in the "people who haven't yet given up on saving the environment" square, so I'm gonna have to say this compass is 100% accurate.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #7757 on: October 19, 2016, 04:50:48 pm »

Trump's daughter, Ivanka, and another of his campaign staff have said that Trump will concede if he loses. Though it's pretty well known that his staffers can barely get him to do what they want (or he needs to do) most of the time.

Of course though, there's that somewhat ambiguous 'voter fraud/irregularities/whatever' bit as he loves to make unfounded claims :P
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 04:53:18 pm by smjjames »
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Starver

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #7758 on: October 19, 2016, 04:56:59 pm »

Even if he concedes, I'm not sure about all of his voters/'disciples' will.

And if Trump wins, ditto the disbelief from the other half of the country... (But I tend to think that there are less 'radicals' in that crowd.)
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #7759 on: October 19, 2016, 05:00:36 pm »

All of their statements are prefaced with "unless there's widespread voter fraud", and regardless of how they define it Trump definitely defines it as him losing. The threat is real, maybe.

This is why I'm just gonna do early voting this year, I do not need any Trumpets rolling up on me asking to see ID, though I probably look like a possible Trump supporter so I'd probably be passed over.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #7760 on: October 19, 2016, 05:08:03 pm »

All of their statements are prefaced with "unless there's widespread voter fraud", and regardless of how they define it Trump definitely defines it as him losing. The threat is real, maybe.

This is why I'm just gonna do early voting this year, I do not need any Trumpets rolling up on me asking to see ID, though I probably look like a possible Trump supporter so I'd probably be passed over.

Which is why I added the 'Of course though' bit in my post. He could go on a twitter storm like he did in 2012 (linked to an article about it a few pages back), but he didn't have the same following he does now.
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #7761 on: October 19, 2016, 05:42:22 pm »

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mainiac

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #7762 on: October 19, 2016, 05:43:05 pm »

I guess putting Hillary and Trump in the same box is classic "both sides bad" bullshit, but it at least mocks right-Libertarians in all their squares.

But it's mocking them on their terms.  It's like the comedy central roast of donald trump.  You can be vicious towards him but you have to do it in a way that takes it as read that he is fundamentally what he says he is, a successful businessman who has created enormous wealth and prosperity.  This assumption isn't because it's true, it's because that's what he wants the rules to be.

No amount of mocking changes the fact that the rules are written the way the libertarians want the rules to be written.  How about we write it the way they dont want the rules written?

Civic
[Clement Atlee][Hillary Clinton][Eisenhower][Shinzo Abe]
left[Castro][Deng Xiaoping][Putin][Cruz]right
[Stalin][Che Guevara][Ron Paul][Hilter]
radical


Oh hey, look at that.  Hillary Clinton is similar to people like the British Prime minister who created the NHS and the American president who integrated schools.  If you go just a little bit to the "bad" direction from her you get Deng Xiaoping, the famous reformer who brought prosperity to China.

Meanwhile the most famous libertarian on this list is right next to a genocidal douchebag.  If you go a little bit in the less "bad" direction from him you end up with an authoritarian dickbag.  And if you go less right from him you have someone who killed a whole lotta people in a dubious fashion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wqOApBLPio

I like this campaign ad.

I do as well.  There is something hypnotic about a gun coming together like that.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 05:45:31 pm by mainiac »
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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nenjin

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #7763 on: October 19, 2016, 06:01:38 pm »

I like it, but not necessarily the vehicle the message is riding in.
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Sergarr

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #7764 on: October 19, 2016, 06:05:51 pm »

I, uh, I think putting Ron Paul in the same line as Stalin, Che Guevara and Hitler might be going a little bit too far, mainiac. You'd have to explain why do you consider him to be on the same level of radicalism.

Also I don't see Trump in there.
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #7765 on: October 19, 2016, 06:07:13 pm »

I don't really think Shinzo Abe is THAT far right, though I know little about him. Just feels wierd to put the guy in the same column as Hitler and Cruz.

Also I don't see Trump in there.

and this^ Though he is something of a chaos lord when it comes to the political compass.
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misko27

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #7766 on: October 19, 2016, 06:08:05 pm »

Yes, she's a warhawk and anything tougher than the current stance is inevitably going to heighten tensions, but honestly, we need anything better than Obama's weaksauce 'multiple red lines that are okay to cross' foriegn policy. One can still be dovish while having a strong hand, you know, like 'talk softly and carry a big stick'.
Ok yo listen up kiddies. You done incurred my wrath

Spoiler: A tale of bombs (click to show/hide)
So when folks complain about Obama being weak, it pisses me off. No one has the right to call Obama weak except people who were actually FOR the bombing in the first place. Interesting, isn't it, that what people complain about is "he lets them cross red lines" instead of "he was too passive", because most people are as guilty of it as him! Where were you when the when Obama announced he wanted to do something about this a year before it all went to hell? That is something that makes me mad about Trump. Be a warmonger or a peacenik, but switching sides when it makes you look good is the path of a liar and a cheat. Either say "Hey I wanted to bomb them then and I want to bomb them now", or say you don't want to bomb at all, or do what Obama did and wait to bomb. I knew what the likely consequences of bombing were, and I accepted them as necessary to prevent a worse alternative. Others had different ideas, and Obama went with theres and not mine and thats the world we live in.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 06:22:03 pm by misko27 »
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #7767 on: October 19, 2016, 06:08:24 pm »

This is like arguing about Myers-Briggs, but dumber. Descriptive models aren't meaningfully subject to rigor, it's impossible.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

mainiac

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #7768 on: October 19, 2016, 06:10:50 pm »

You'd have to explain why do you consider him to be on the same level of radicalism.

Also I don't see Trump in there.

Ron Paul prides himself on being a complete radical.  Abolish the Federal Reserve, abolish pretty much the entire government, abolish political correctness, end all overseas commitments, no income tax, no sales tax.

Trump would probably occupy the same spot as his spirit guide, Putin.

Fakeedit: hey look, McMuffin was in first place in a Utah poll.  I would say that given the nature of the race in Utah we should say he is more likely to win Utah then lose it at this point.

This is like arguing about Myers-Briggs, but dumber. Descriptive models aren't meaningfully subject to rigor, it's impossible.

I'm not saying that my model is good.  I'm trying to demonstrate the inherent bias in choosing axis.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

nenjin

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #7769 on: October 19, 2016, 06:11:51 pm »

Clearly the only answer to this is a poll and some sort of forum game to create Bay12's fantastical political 4 square.

Quote from: misko27
So when folks complain about Obama being weak, it pisses me off. No one has the right to call Obama weak except people who were actually FOR the bombing in the first place. Interesting, isn't it, that what people complain about is "he lets them cross red lines" instead of "he was too passive", because most people are as guilty of it as him! Where were you when the when Obama announced he wanted to do something about this a year before it all went to hell? That is something that makes me mad about Trump. Be a warmonger or a peacenik, but switching sides when it makes you look good is the path of a liar and a cheat. Either say "Hey I wanted to bomb them then and I want to bomb them now", or say you don't want to bomb at all, or do what Obama did and wait to bomb. I knew what the likely consequences of bombing were, and I accepted them as necessary to prevent a worse alternative. Others had different ideas, and Obama went with theres and not mine and here we are aren't we?

Politicians call Obama weak for purely political reasons. The facts say otherwise. The amount of people his administration has quietly blown up over 8 years is kind of mind-boggling. Hawks call Obama weak because they want to take the precedents for force he's established and then turn the knob up to 12 and drone strike on American soil if it fits their fancy. By calling Obama weak it positions the next president to be even more aggressive in the name of "not being weak", and creating the narrative that America needs to blow up even more people, not fewer.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 06:21:11 pm by nenjin »
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Quote from: MrRoboto75
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