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[misko27]

(Usual caveat: confidence in win probability aside, it only matters if folks actually go out and vote. So go vote.)

From what I understand it kinda...doesn't? Because the electoral college is a thing and can instantly cast aside the popular vote like a sack of bricks? Like what happened with George W?

So yeah. US is literally an Oligarchy.

Actually to be frank I'm fairly impressed with how rarely the electoral vote and the popular vote don't line up. Further, it's not a matter of casting aside, it's a matter of the structure of the system. They aren't obligated to vote for the popular vote in the country (otherwise it would just be a matter of who got more people period and then 100% of the electors vote for them), they're obligated to vote for who they said they would vote for, once voted upon themselves. It's entirely possible for three states to vote 60% in favor of one candidate and 40% in favor of the other, and for the other two to vote 100% in favor of the other, and for the first to still win, despite only having 30% of the popular vote. But none of them 'cast aside' the popular vote. It's just multi-tiered first-past-the-post. It's why I find gerrymandering so upsetting.

For sanity's sake I'd suggest not taking BFEL seriously. I'm sure he doesn't intend to troll, but in practice what he does is essentially that: post something his mother told him, provoking a large number of reaction posts. Then, he ignores most of them, responds to a few of them he can actually argue against, and then disappears into the wilderness of the web.

[Max™]

Johnson actually argued that the President knowing WTF was going on in the world would be dangerous for the US military:

These foreign policy answers have raised serious questions about Johnson's knowledge of basic international facts. The Libertarian nominee though has tried to wave those questions off. In an interview with MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell on Tuesday, the former New Mexico governor argued that a deep foreign policy expertise is a pathway to starting wars.

"You know what? The fact that somebody can dot the I’s and cross the T's on a foreign leader’s geographic location then allows them to put our military in harm’s way," Johnson said.

Basically he's arguing here that if you pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist, America will be safer.

It's typical [L]ibertarianism, actually. They have always had to pretend that the rest of the world, along with its entire history, doesn't exist, in order to justify their inane "government that can fit in a shed" societies.

Corrected the capitalization, libertarians and Libertarians (or lolbertarians more accurately) aren't the same.

[smjjames]

Johnson actually argued that the President knowing WTF was going on in the world would be dangerous for the US military:

These foreign policy answers have raised serious questions about Johnson's knowledge of basic international facts. The Libertarian nominee though has tried to wave those questions off. In an interview with MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell on Tuesday, the former New Mexico governor argued that a deep foreign policy expertise is a pathway to starting wars.

"You know what? The fact that somebody can dot the I’s and cross the T's on a foreign leader’s geographic location then allows them to put our military in harm’s way," Johnson said.

Basically he's arguing here that if you pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist, America will be safer.

It's typical [L]ibertarianism, actually. They have always had to pretend that the rest of the world, along with its entire history, doesn't exist, in order to justify their inane "government that can fit in a shed" societies.

Corrected the capitalization, libertarians and Libertarians (or lolbertarians more accurately) aren't the same.

What's the difference between the two?

[Reelya]

The same as democratic vs Democratic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

[smjjames]

I still don't get it. non party-line democrats vs party-line democrats?

[Reelya]

The difference between democracy the concept vs Democrats the party. "Democratic" doesn't necessarily mean "pertaining to what members of the American Democratic Party believe", and, in the same sense, libertarianism is a much larger and diverse set of beliefs than the things that people around the Libertarian Party believe.

[RedKing]

More "the concept" vs "a political party which may or may not have any shreds of the political ideology it's named for"

[Reelya]

The meaning changed completely. And it was only in the 1970s that this happened.

One gratifying aspect of our rise to some prominence is that, for the first time in my memory, we, 'our side,' had captured a crucial word from the enemy... 'Libertarians'... had long been simply a polite word for left-wing anarchists, that is for anti-private property anarchists, either of the communist or syndicalist variety. But now we had taken it over...

Basically, the traditional meaning of Libertarian (and also everywhere except America) is a form of anarcho-socialism (similar to anarcho-syndicalism) which is both anti-government and anti-capitalist. The word was appropriated by anti-government pro-big-business types to give their views a more ... palatable name, than i guess "corporate feudalism" or just "right-wingers who want to destroy democracy and let corporations rule the Earth".

[smjjames]

Well... looking at the wiki article, the [L]ibertarian party is pretty isolationist (whether to the point of kicking out the UN headquarters, I don't know), but [l]ibertarianism is a 'social revolution' kind of thing and really doesn't have anything regarding foriegn policy with it.

[mainiac]

The difference between democracy the concept vs Democrats the party. "Democratic" doesn't necessarily mean "pertaining to what members of the American Democratic Party believe", and, in the same sense, libertarianism is a much larger and diverse set of beliefs than the things that people around the Libertarian Party believe.

Dont you mean "democratic" doesn't mean the party?

[smjjames]

The difference between democracy the concept vs Democrats the party. "Democratic" doesn't necessarily mean "pertaining to what members of the American Democratic Party believe", and, in the same sense, libertarianism is a much larger and diverse set of beliefs than the things that people around the Libertarian Party believe.

Dont you mean "democratic" doesn't mean the party?

That IS what Reelya said.

[Reelya]

Well, yeah, but smjames wrote:

I still don't get it. non party-line democrats vs party-line democrats?

So i was trying to make it extra clear that this was about the concept vs the party, not "non party-line democrats vs party-line democrats", which is still about factions.

[smjjames]

Well, yeah, but when I just stated it like that, the person didn't get it, so i was trying to break it down a different way.

I got it when you just had the first sentence there, but that's ok.

[mainiac]

The difference between democracy the concept vs Democrats the party. "Democratic" doesn't necessarily mean "pertaining to what members of the American Democratic Party believe", and, in the same sense, libertarianism is a much larger and diverse set of beliefs than the things that people around the Libertarian Party believe.

Dont you mean "democratic" doesn't mean the party?

That IS what Reelya said.

But he used a capital "D".

As fascinating as this is, I offer you the feel good counter intuitive article of the year:
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/10/2016-most-policy-heavy-election-decades

all of these things are policy:

Building a wall to reduce illegal immigration from Mexico.
Keeping troops in Afghanistan.
Changing our strategy for destroying ISIS.
Improving relations with Russia.
Toughening visa requirements to keep potential terrorists out of the country.
Expanding or repealing Obamacare.
Signing an agreement with Iran to halt their nuclear program.
Making college free.
Halting new trade agreements until they're made better for American workers.
Spending more on the military.
Insisting that treaty allies pay a higher share of defense costs.
Creating a federal maternity leave and child care program.
Tackling climate change.
Whether we should make America more energy independent via more clean power or more extraction of fossil fuels.
Profiling Muslims and surveilling mosques to stay ahead of Islamic terrorism.
Appointing liberal vs. conservative Supreme Court justices.
Routine stop-and-frisk as a way of combating crime.
Raising the minimum wage.
Rebuilding infrastructure.

Way to go America!  You became really interested in policy for a year!

[smjjames]

Has anybody seen any positive Hillary ads in their state recently? I've now seen two, maybe three, different positive ads for Trump, but I don't remember seeing any positive Hillary ones recently. Just wondering out loud at this.

Doesn't make me want to vote Trump any more than I already don't want to vote Trump, I'm just making an observation here.