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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1390655 times)

Mephansteras

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #4590 on: September 22, 2016, 04:25:25 pm »

Meanwhile, Gary Johnson says we don't need a climate change plan because the sun will eventually engulf the planet anyways.

Man, I knew I disagreed with him on a bunch of stuff but...this is just beyond dumb.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #4591 on: September 22, 2016, 04:30:00 pm »

he thought the sun was an acronym, jeez
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Max™

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #4592 on: September 22, 2016, 05:06:18 pm »

Yeah it'd be pretty surprising if they took the bait, it's a very transparent stratagem
I quoted this to check and see what your transparent text was... I didn't expect it to be                                                                                                                    

If you think about it, that's pretty much a solid Libertarian justification for not doing anything about anything.

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mainiac

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #4593 on: September 22, 2016, 08:32:04 pm »

Oh hey, totally not a nutjob candidate Jill Stein is tweeting conspiracy theories.  It's not very surprising though.  She is big on a lot of conspiracy theories.

Just in case anyone wonders what my opinion is: Voting for this woman will send a message to the two party system: you dont matter as a voter.  In a contest where the basic points of environmentalism, human rights and basic democracy are in sharper relief then anyone thought possible you still care more about your protest vote then anything else.  And it's not a protest vote for an amazing candidate or even a good one.  It's for a pathetic troll who is less qualified then a random person off the street.

So sixty days from now the republicans and democrats are going to be looking at the wreckage of the election and they will be tallying up the green vote. 
And the democrats will say "wow, we had an environmentalist candidate who has been known for two decades as an advocate of human rights and who was the original target of Citizens United but there were still millions of people who would rather vote for a Green party clown.  There is nothing we can do to win their vote, we need to write them off and focus on appealing to voters in the middle who didn't care about any of this stuff." 
And the republicans will say "wow, we had a candidate who was an affront to everything in the green platform and they still didn't care enough to vote against him.  We can safely ignore them because if Trump, the global warming denial authoritarian, didn't motivate these people to vote against us nothing will make them vote against us."

You can complain about the two party system until you are blue in the face but it's not the two party system you are voting for.  You are endorsing the message "I am Green and I dont matter."
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #4594 on: September 22, 2016, 09:08:16 pm »

I don't think that's true at all, mainiac.

I mean, I don't think people should vote for Jill Stein, but I also don't think that your approach to getting people to make their vote worth a damn (which it only really is in the swing states anyway) is either accurate or effective.

It's a very just-so story.
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mainiac

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #4595 on: September 22, 2016, 09:25:55 pm »

There is every possible reason not to vote for Stein.  She is a horrible candidate.  Not just bad, but a horrible conspiracy nut without a lick of qualifications, extreme ignorance and no coherent policy.  There is a left wing candidate who is as in line with green priorities as any two party nominee can be.  There is a right wing candidate who is as hostile towards green party priorities as any two party nominee can be.  If these reasons are not sufficient, what possible reasons would be?  That is a serious question.

Hell man if you are dead set on making a choice you will regret later then at least vote for Larry Lessig.  At least then your vote is for the guy on the single issue of "I want to reform elections" so it's a clear message.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

BorkBorkGoesTheCode

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #4596 on: September 22, 2016, 09:30:57 pm »

Just in case anyone wonders what my opinion is: Voting for this woman will send a message to the two party system: you dont matter as a voter.

So what is new?  :P

Hell man if you are dead set on making a choice you will regret later then at least vote for Larry Lessig.  At least then your vote is for the guy on the single issue of "I want to reform elections" so it's a clear message.

Is he still trying to reform copyright?

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mainiac

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #4597 on: September 22, 2016, 09:41:29 pm »

Signing out. May _____ have mercy on our future.

We are in a democracy.  Rule of the people.  You dont get to just give a prayer and act like you dont have any power.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #4598 on: September 22, 2016, 09:51:24 pm »

There is every possible reason not to vote for Stein.  She is a horrible candidate.  Not just bad, but a horrible conspiracy nut without a lick of qualifications, extreme ignorance and no coherent policy.  There is a left wing candidate who is as in line with green priorities as any two party nominee can be.  There is a right wing candidate who is as hostile towards green party priorities as any two party nominee can be.  If these reasons are not sufficient, what possible reasons would be?  That is a serious question.

Hell man if you are dead set on making a choice you will regret later then at least vote for Larry Lessig.  At least then your vote is for the guy on the single issue of "I want to reform elections" so it's a clear message.
I didn't mean Stein wasn't a terrible candidate.

I meant the part where 'No one will care about you and you will help usher in a new era of darkness lasting a thousands years' style talking points you were making there.

But yeah I'd love Larry Lessig to be president, and if I thought he had the chance of a snowball in a blast furnace I'd vote for him.
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mainiac

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #4599 on: September 22, 2016, 09:55:11 pm »

I meant the part where 'No one will care about you and you will help usher in a new era of darkness lasting a thousands years' style talking points you were making there.

You know it's appropriate that you would use hyperbole to describe my position when the topic is Jill Stein, the woman who has turned hyperbole into satire.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 09:58:09 pm by mainiac »
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #4600 on: September 22, 2016, 10:02:30 pm »

Oh hey, totally not a nutjob candidate Jill Stein is tweeting conspiracy theories.  It's not very surprising though.  She is big on a lot of conspiracy theories.
Counterpoint: Attack on the candidate's character without even addressing the subject so as to avoid bringing attention to Combetta being a fool

This sneakiness legit made me want to get all the evidence in an easy to read format so I did
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
First you have the reddit user Stone Tear inquiring about very specific email problems for a very important person. Nothing except the time the post was made and the circumstances of the post could link this user to Combetta, it could be any number of VIPs who need to erase their fuckup emails. When the allegation was made that this user and Combetta were the same person
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This Stone Tear user started deleting all of their posts. Won't help them because they've all been archived already by weaponized autists. Still, nothing tying the identities together beyond circumstance. One thing I've learned though is that even if you are a ghost online, your retarded friends will still upload pictures of you and tag your name on it, there simply is no escaping big data. Really unfortunate though is if you choose a drone name that isn't actually a drone name, but rather a nickname - a nickname your friends know.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just look at that face <3

Then if you go to combetta.com you can find it was registered under the name 'Your God,' email address: stonetear@gmail.com.
On this shitty 2003 webpage you can find Combetta being edgy, website listed to both StoneTear and Paul.
It links to this website, which is also registered under StoneTear email address.
Here is Stonetear complaining on slashdot about how he's contracted to the state department and it's a pain in the ass that they save every it of information.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Final icing on the cake

This is just too much for me to handle, Hillary, who believes in cartoon meme frogs running an elaborate conspiracy to destroy America, outsourced her illegal destruction of evidence to reddit without even knowing
10/10 would put in charge of national security

Your conspiracy theory that Jill Stein is a Russian plant I haven't found any evidence for either, but if you can show it call me a believer lmao

Just in case anyone wonders what my opinion is: Voting for this woman will send a message to the two party system: you dont matter as a voter.
Here in the UK for a long time our two established parties were indistinguishable and everyone got salty, but couldn't change anything about it because they didn't vote for third parties. If you lived in a contested seat, your local politician could get funds to try and win you over to restore your area/make it prosper, if you lived in a safe seat you didn't matter. Politicians "knew" who you'd vote for based off your race, religion, age and sex, your vote didn't matter.
Then people actually started voting for people they believed in, on all spectrums of the political axis. The two establishment parties were losing ground in areas they once had the audacity to call strongholds, they actually had to start listening to people they represented. The Scots got devomax, the Southerns and Welsh got Referendum, Brummies got actual regeneration projects running e.t.c.
Voting actually mattered again; it wasn't just about reds vs blues, two faces on the same shiny coin, two legs walking the body of the rich - the two main parties were no longer thinking "how do we destroy this uprising," but thinking "how can we change things for the better." Our left wing and right wing parties for once actually started supported what they believed in, fucking miraculously, because they knew if they didn't change they would simply lose

In a contest where the basic points of environmentalism, human rights and basic democracy are in sharper relief then anyone thought possible you still care more about your protest vote then anything else.  And it's not a protest vote for an amazing candidate or even a good one.  It's for a pathetic troll who is less qualified then a random person off the street.
She's a medical doctor who understands firsthand the detrimental health effects of pollution and genuinely cares for the well-being of others. She's one of the very few politicians in the USA who actually campaigned for clean election finance reform, got it passed, which was then repealed by establishment democrats. The two big parties have made it clear, if you don't force them to act differently, they will never give a shit about your votes. They would much rather keep themselves unaccountable.

So sixty days from now the republicans and democrats are going to be looking at the wreckage of the election and they will be tallying up the green vote. 
And the democrats will say "wow, we had an environmentalist candidate who has been known for two decades as an advocate of human rights and who was the original target of Citizens United but there were still millions of people who would rather vote for a Green party clown.  There is nothing we can do to win their vote, we need to write them off and focus on appealing to voters in the middle who didn't care about any of this stuff." 
And the republicans will say "wow, we had a candidate who was an affront to everything in the green platform and they still didn't care enough to vote against him.  We can safely ignore them because if Trump, the global warming denial authoritarian, didn't motivate these people to vote against us nothing will make them vote against us."
Democrats will say "huh, maybe we should campaign for the end of money driven politics, environmentalism, serving public interests"
Republicans have already had to look at how they completely failed their voters because their failure to deliver anything they promised to stand for created Trump, and once Trumpites establish themselves as the new establishment right, they will in turn be pressured by as Ted Cruz put it, voters "voting with their conscience" and the edgy lolbertarian brigade serving to the republicans as the greens to democrats.

You can complain about the two party system until you are blue in the face but it's not the two party system you are voting for.  You are endorsing the message "I am Green and I dont matter."
#greenvotesmatter

Rolepgeek

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #4601 on: September 22, 2016, 11:03:48 pm »

I meant the part where 'No one will care about you and you will help usher in a new era of darkness lasting a thousands years' style talking points you were making there.

You know it's appropriate that you would use hyperbole to describe my position when the topic is Jill Stein, the woman who has turned hyperbole into satire.
Yes
Just in case anyone wonders what my opinion is: Voting for this woman will send a message to the two party system: you dont matter as a voter. 
And the democrats will say "...There is nothing we can do to win their vote, we need to write them off..." 
And the republicans will say "...We can safely ignore them..."

You can complain about the two party system until you are blue in the face but it's not the two party system you are voting for.  You are endorsing the message "I am Green and I dont matter."
Hyperbole
In a contest where the basic points of environmentalism, human rights and basic democracy are in sharper relief then anyone thought possible you still care more about your protest vote then anything else.
I'm sure


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WealthyRadish

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #4603 on: September 23, 2016, 12:30:40 am »

I thought so too, until I read the poll questions. It's the most ludicrously shameless poll I've ever seen, like it wanted to sell you a DVD of Trump's greatest hits. It was to the point where it felt unethical not to give troll answers.

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Max™

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American
« Reply #4604 on: September 23, 2016, 02:39:01 am »

In the context of "what an election should be" lots of things may seem shady, but what we have is not that, and trying to uphold some semblance of fair play over most things which fall short of actually stuffing ballot boxes is silly.

People with enough money can literally sit back and throw it at a campaign right now, waging a bit of trollish guerilla warfare by exploiting lax website design with the intention of getting important issues addressed during the debates only seems shady if you ignore the looming storm of cash and legalese blustering about overhead to focus on that one little patch of ground you're trying to preserve the sanctity of.


I was curious about something though, ElDubs my man, because it seemed like there was a bit of a scale problem trying to compare campaigning in the UK with doing it in the US, a quick check suggests that the 5 largest metro areas in the US (New York, LA, Chicago, DC, San Fran, not the cities themselves but the cities and municipalities around them) have the same population as the UK. Gotta go 60~ spots down the list to freaking Tuscon to find one which only has a million people.

Not saying it proves or disproves anything, especially given the different structure of both systems, but there is a lot more public inertia to overcome in trying to get the US to take a third party seriously before you get into the clusterfuck of FPTP and Electoral Colleges and whatnot.
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