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[SirQuiamus]

Progressives generally call the alt-left the regressive left. Because that's what they are, regressive leftists.

The alt-right generally calls them liberals. Only difference is, these days there actually is a lunatic fringe on the left large enough to notice, so it's more than them just spouting hot air. That's what gives the centrists the excuse to attack progressives and label them as alt-righters. We despise the regressive left because they're authoritarian bigots; the alt-right despises them because they're in large part the sum of their paranoid fears made manifest.

I think that (for me at least) progressives have a stronger reaction to the regressive left than the alt-right for a couple reasons: they've emerged much more recently; they are perverting our ideals and goals for their own selfish, hateful ends while denying our political identity and trying to claim it for themselves; they have a meaningful degree of support from the media and government (whereas nobody who isn't an alt-right loonie themselves takes alt-right loonies seriously for even a moment); and they serve the interests of corporate America and the extremely wealthy when they divide the poor and middle class with racial and sexual conflict, weakening awareness of the ongoing one-sided class war that's slowly driving the vast swath of the citizenry into a vague lower-class level of subsistence living.

Oh dear God, this is Glorious. I almost feel guilty watching one of the fabled Great Liberal Ones go full alt-right in plain sight of everyone.

This is a historic moment, let me savour it... ahhh... yesss.

[mainiac]

Could you provide me with cliff notes?

[RedKing]

Well, that's certainly a....novel interpretation of history. Utterly disagree with your conclusion though -- that any criticism of the Left is basically being a pawn of the far-right? Especially when it's criticism of people who have gone so far out into left field that they're not even in the fucking stadium anymore.

That's... not what M's spiel was saying, though? The conclusion was that using far-X terms for their opposition as a means of contempt was reinforcing said far-X's worldview. Criticism is fine, it's when you're aping the same worldview and terminology (and its use) the alt-foo folks are using you're contributing to a problem, basically.

Progressives generally call the alt-left the regressive left. Because that's what they are, regressive leftists.

The alt-right generally calls them liberals. Only difference is, these days there actually is a lunatic fringe on the left large enough to notice, so it's more than them just spouting hot air. That's what gives the centrists the excuse to attack progressives and label them as alt-righters. We despise the regressive left because they're authoritarian bigots; the alt-right despises them because they're in large part the sum of their paranoid fears made manifest.

I think that (for me at least) progressives have a stronger reaction to the regressive left than the alt-right for a couple reasons: they've emerged much more recently; they are perverting our ideals and goals for their own selfish, hateful ends while denying our political identity and trying to claim it for themselves; they have a meaningful degree of support from the media and government (whereas nobody who isn't an alt-right loonie themselves takes alt-right loonies seriously for even a moment); and they serve the interests of corporate America and the extremely wealthy when they divide the poor and middle class with racial and sexual conflict, weakening awareness of the ongoing one-sided class war that's slowly driving the vast swath of the citizenry into a vague lower-class level of subsistence living.

Also, ain't entirely wrong.

I think what LD is driving at is that genuine progressives get touchy about the alt-left/SJW types because they're making progressivism into a caricature of its actual ideals, which is then more easily ridiculed and dismissed as the province of nutjobs.

The same way that healthier diets and organic vegetables are a good thing, but taken to the extreme of gluten-free kombucha and tofu-based enemas it just becomes a parody of itself.
I'm curious if mainiac and Frumple and SirQuiamus think that Portlandia was secretly a right-wing hatchet job, because mockery of the extreme Left was the whole core of that show. The lesbian bookstore owners, especially.
"Every time you point, I see a penis." (trigger warning: CONTAINS HUMOR)

[Max™]

I remember when being a naive anarchist and "slow revolution" socialist put me out in a lonely spot on the edge of the left, before it fractured like a tempered glass windshield and a craze of righteous indignation spread out between, around, and even beyond me.

It's terrifying, is this what sane conservatives felt like watching the tea party and trump take over around them? I'm sorry for judging you guys too harshly.

[mainiac]

I'm curious if mainiac and Frumple and SirQuiamus think that Portlandia was secretly a right-wing hatchet job, because mockery of the extreme Left was the whole core of that show. The lesbian bookstore owners, especially.
"Every time you point, I see a penis." (trigger warning: CONTAINS HUMOR)

But there is a difference between "I hate SJW" and "I hate penis obsessed lesbian bookshop owners".  One sounds silly even from that tiny description.  But it doesn't just stop at that, they go and they establish the premise and do actual humor.  It's fine to say "hey these really liberal people have their really liberal foibles and here is a joke you get from playing that premise out", it's just not cool when you say "this group of liberal people with an indistinct definition suck".

To offer a less political comparison, there are plenty of funny nerds in tv shows with nerdy characters.  Frasier is basically 11 straight seasons of nerd jokes and it never gets old.  But the Big Bang Theory is so bad that you could ruin a dumpster fire by throwing a dvd copy of TBBT on it.  Frasier and Niles are huge nerds, sure.  But TBBT is nothing but the label "nerds".  You can find good ground for humor in a lot of subject materials and it doesn't even have to be mean spirited.  But when it's just the abstract concept it's almost certainly going to be deplorable.

[Frumple]

I don't even know what portlandia is, RK :V

[mainiac]

I don't even know what portlandia is, RK :V

A tv show that takes a city famous for hipsterism, alternative lifestyles (lazy not gay [well also gay but like lazy gay people]) and wishy washy open mindedness and exagerates it for comedic effect.

[Max™]

I didn't even know Oregon actually existed until I read geological papers about the basalt floods in the area, true story.

[SirQuiamus]

-

[Rolepgeek]

Portland is possibly the whitest bastion of progressive values you will ever see

No seriously

I live in Oregon, and it's both super-white and super-hippy

[GreatJustice]

I'm curious if mainiac and Frumple and SirQuiamus think that Portlandia was secretly a right-wing hatchet job, because mockery of the extreme Left was the whole core of that show. The lesbian bookstore owners, especially.
"Every time you point, I see a penis." (trigger warning: CONTAINS HUMOR)

But there is a difference between "I hate SJW" and "I hate penis obsessed lesbian bookshop owners".  One sounds silly even from that tiny description.  But it doesn't just stop at that, they go and they establish the premise and do actual humor.  It's fine to say "hey these really liberal people have their really liberal foibles and here is a joke you get from playing that premise out", it's just not cool when you say "this group of liberal people with an indistinct definition suck".

SJW is a term that I personally avoid (because I prefer to think of them as "fucking crazy people" that don't deserve a title), but it at least encompasses a pretty clear set of people. You could also stop saying "I hate the religious right" and replace it with "I hate people that want their religion to directly influence public policy, to have prayer in schools, to have the government support Israel regardless of American interests, etc etc" but there really is no point.

[Frumple]

... I think the problem kinda' repeatedly pointed out in the last bit is that SJW is not nearly as clear a set of people as, as per your example, something like the religious right are. The latter actually has a pretty clear set of people it's applied to, who generally have a fairly congruent set of political goals (if perhaps not much else), whereas SJW is applied to probably (at least) a dozen different groups, some with radically different (and at times contradictory) objectives, methodologies, etc., etc., etc. Religious right is broadly speaking an actual designator. SJW is more a derogative than just about anything.

[saigo]

I thought SJW refers to cultural marxists?

[Frumple]

It is probably used to refer to 'em at times, but far from exclusively.

[Max™]

I thought SJW refers to cultural marxists?

Goddammit that is not a thing, I'm not allowing it, black flag on marxists being anything but an econopolitical division dammit!