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[Abram Jones]

note: no wargames will be added to the list unless they involve significantly more than combat.

Previously I was requesting economic games for a list, and was surprised to learn about several games I didn't know about from this board (thanks!). The suggestions I received gave me the idea to also make a complex game list since a lot of the recommendations didn't qualify under the strict requirements for the economic list, despite being noteworthy. I already added any game that you suggested for the economic list to the complex game list, so you won't need to suggest those again unless I accidentally missed 1 or 2 (which may have happened). Please suggest games with the most game mechanics and tools the player (s) can use to achieve their goal (s). Here is the complex game list so far: http://videogamegeek.com/geeklist/209398/most-complex-strategy-and-simulation-games-longest

[MrRoboto75]

For grand strategy games, there's the Paradox Interactive games, like Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis, Hearts of Iron, or Stellaris.

For real time strategies, I could recommend Warzone 2100 and Impossible Creatures.  Both have the same 'theme' of customizable units, either constructing tanks from various parts, or mashing two animals together.  I feel this adds depth, making them 'complex'.

Also, if you have Sim City, why not Cities: Skylines.

[ndkid]

Pretty much anything Gary Grigsby touched will be a complex simulation, but the Steel Panters series, GG's War in the East, and GG's War in the West jump to mind the fastest.
Everything AGEOD has designed, but especially Pride of Nations.

[Abram Jones]

Forgot to put in there that I'm not going to add games that are only wargames, because then the list will have about a million games.

For grand strategy games, there's the Paradox Interactive games, like Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis, Hearts of Iron, or Stellaris.

For real time strategies, I could recommend Warzone 2100 and Impossible Creatures.  Both have the same 'theme' of customizable units, either constructing tanks from various parts, or mashing two animals together.  I feel this adds depth, making them 'complex'.

Also, if you have Sim City, why not Cities: Skylines.

Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis are already added. I will soon add Hearts of Iron, Stellaris and Skylines. Thanks for the recommendations (:

Pretty much anything Gary Grigsby touched will be a complex simulation, but the Steel Panters series, GG's War in the East, and GG's War in the West jump to mind the fastest.
Everything AGEOD has designed, but especially Pride of Nations.

Are any of these more than wargames? Sorry, I forgot to mention that games that are strictly wargames will not be added... my fault!

[Sonlirain]

Hmm... Enemy Nations would kinda fit.
The game is in a weird spot between Command and Conquer Impressions city builders and Anno in that you have a fairly large number of resources that have to be shifted around with trucks and your citizens need food work and accommodation.

However the game does boil down to getting a military running and crushing all alien life off the face of the planet.

[Cthulhu]

War in the West is out?

WitE is kind of weird, it hits a kind of "I can see the code" simulationist nirvana where it's actually really intuitive.  Once you get to grips with the controls the underlying mechanics are so well-realized you can basically do what you'd do if you were actually in charge and it'll usually work as expected.  As opposed to most of these kinds of games, where the rules overshadow the strategy and knowing how to maximize your attack dice or what bonuses X unit gets in Y terrain are more important.

[jocan2003]

Supreme ruler, this is the most fucking complex game i played after dwarf fortress and Aurora space sim thingy. You have scenarios and also a sandbox game and have to pick a country, then you manage domestic devlopment, set budget, take care of foreign diplomacy, research and so on. Seriously the most indept in terms of military/social/political mash-up game, some parts are very deep, some other not so much (i look at you diplomacy), but all of them combined together will send your head spinning tryin to balance everything.

[Persus13]

Factorio is a factory building game that seems pretty complex.

Since you have Civ on there, Endless Legend probably belongs on your list as well.

What's your rules on Space 4X games? Because I only see Stellaris, and it seems that your list should probably include games like Endless Space, Masters of Orion, Galactic Civ III, and Star Ruler II. And then Aurora is more complex than all of them.

[Culise]

AGEOD does mostly war games, but you may want to consider Pride of Nations, which is much more general grand strategy between 1850 and 1920.  Rule The Waves is another one that's much closer to a full wargame, but you're also managing your warfleet in times of peace as well; all too often and to poach from LeMay, the other nations are merely your adversaries, while your enemy is the Army...or the people...or the Parliament...or your King...or simply the inexorable and all-too-rapid march of technology in the era, such as the advent of the all-big-gun battleships/dreadnoughts that in a single stroke of a drafting pencil wiped pre-dreads from the strategic picture.  It's something of an "Aurora on the High Seas" in presentation, which is amusing since Aurora felt a bit like "Harpoon in Space" due to its interface. 

[feelotraveller]

Wait... what forum is this?  Oh yeah, Dwarf Fortress. 

[Persus13]

Wait... what forum is this?  Oh yeah, Dwarf Fortress. 

He has that on the list already.

[Sonlirain]

Just remembered... Alien nations 1 and 2.
basically a more economy focused cousin of Settlers.

[thegoatgod_pan]

Birthright: the Gorgon's alliance. War is a part of it, but so is dungeon crawling, insinuating yourself into thieves' guilds and killing elves.

[Rince Wind]

Aurora 4x - space 4x where you even have to design your own missiles and engines.

[MrWiggles]

Oldie but a goodie, Shadow President.

Oh, and the Creature Games. Though I suppose, all that complexity is inward, since there experiments and studies into digital life and artificial intelligence.