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[Happy Demon]

Hm... maybe Pherse may have caused the problems for the Dryad people.
Or maybe it's another demon.

Either way, keep Pherse away from the Dryad people.

[Taricus]

Or better yet, tell the dryads where pherse is, and sit back and enjoy a free exorcism

[Happy Demon]

Or better yet, tell the dryads where pherse is, and sit back and enjoy a free exorcism

The Dryads, who were almost wiped out by creatures of darkness and flame.

Against Pherse, a lesser demon, but still way more powerful than the Dryads.
Underground, where the sun does not shine, and is filled with creatures of darkness and flame, who follow Pherse.

Yeah, no. I think Sleeve will sew your mouth shut if you tried to send them on a suicide crusade.

[Taricus]

Hey, worth a try

Anyway, Pricecheck on cursing the southern continent to make the omnifruit tree unable to take root there?

[Happy Demon]

Because I was unsure how many points it'll take to cure the beast, I'll use all my points.

Too bad, because it means I have to delay the Valkyrie project by a turn.

[Leonardo8]

 price check:how much would this spell cost?

Spoiler: The steady fire of the soul (click to show/hide)

this spell can be casted only by an Anansi(the spider alarri). It is a meditative ritual about an hour long, that gives the caster increased intelligence, harmony and focus for all day.It also calms all the negative emotions and brings a sense of eace.If casted every day though it gradually becomes less effective and need a cooldown time to reach the same effectiveness again.

[Roboson]

Om use's their divine power to resurrect tortons from the dead. This is the ultimate feat of godhood, the holy grail of divine magic, that is only achievable by gods, and rarely, demi-gods. The god Om manages to resurrect 80 tortons from the recent battle.

This isn't right. You previously gave the cost of resurrection as 75% of the original cost to create. It costs 30 IP to make 1000 of a mortal race with a magical ability (which I assume affinity for warding magic counts as). 30/1000 * 0.75 = 0.0225 per torton resurrected. 8/0.0225 = 356 Tortons resurrected, not 80.


And the 80 weren't added to the race pop counter either

It actually is correct. The original resurrection you asked about, I assumed you meant for big meaningful entities, not for everyday mortals. 8 IP to resurrect several hundred tortons is  ridiculous. I went with 10 for each IP because, after I tried doing the exact same calculation as you did above , I decided that that was an incredibly overpowered amount of people to be able to resurrect for the cost. Then I seriously considered charging the 22.5 IP (75% of 30) as a minimum buy-in of IP to get any resurrection going for recently dead mortals, but I figured that 10 per 1 IP was more conducive to the game environment.

As for adding them to the race counter, ya got me there. I went ahead and fixed that.

[Demonic Spoon]

Om use's their divine power to resurrect tortons from the dead. This is the ultimate feat of godhood, the holy grail of divine magic, that is only achievable by gods, and rarely, demi-gods. The god Om manages to resurrect 80 tortons from the recent battle.

This isn't right. You previously gave the cost of resurrection as 75% of the original cost to create. It costs 30 IP to make 1000 of a mortal race with a magical ability (which I assume affinity for warding magic counts as). 30/1000 * 0.75 = 0.0225 per torton resurrected. 8/0.0225 = 356 Tortons resurrected, not 80.


And the 80 weren't added to the race pop counter either

It actually is correct. The original resurrection you asked about, I assumed you meant for big meaningful entities, not for everyday mortals. 8 IP to resurrect several hundred tortons is  ridiculous. I went with 10 for each IP because, after I tried doing the exact same calculation as you did above , I decided that that was an incredibly overpowered amount of people to be able to resurrect for the cost. Then I seriously considered charging the 22.5 IP (75% of 30) as a minimum buy-in of IP to get any resurrection going for recently dead mortals, but I figured that 10 per 1 IP was more conducive to the game environment.

As for adding them to the race counter, ya got me there. I went ahead and fixed that.

It really isn't that overpowered. If you're going to nerf it this ridicolously then I can simply make new tortons instead for a far better price. In fact, I want to request a refund and do that right now because this resurrection was a ripoff.

IMO, resurrection should function as slightly cheaper creation, with the limitation that there needs to be dead targets to actually resurrect

[Happy Demon]

I think 10 people for 1 IP is too expensive.
This way, getting 1 000 back, costs 100 IP, which is over thrice the cost.

I like the idea, making creation of life cheaper than resurrection. As it lets the dead rest.
But, how about just 2x? That way, to resurrect 1 000 takes 60 IP.
Still expensive as hell, but an obvious step up from the, frankly ridiculous, current price.

Though, I will side with Demonic Spoon here.
You shouldn't change the number, and then make him do an action when you've upped the price to such a ridiculous number.
If you change the number, ask him if he still wants to do the resurrection. And/or let him change the action.

[Roboson]

I disagree with your opinion on the nature of resurrection. You're talking about going into the afterlife, finding a soul that was once a torton, taking that soul back from the afterlife, and putting it back in its correct body. Its not easy, or cheap, and should require a lot of power.

What you stated was actually not the correct equation for resurrection cost per torton. That right equation is listed bellow. However it is important to note a rule that was discussed earlier:

 

-snip-

If you have seen it and you are asking how much it would create to create a single of any one creature (not enough for them to gain a permanent hold on this world), then it would probably cost a fifth of the cost. But the prices for higher beings like demi-gods and angels are the listed price per one.

-snip

So if you wanted to get the cost of resurrection per torton you would take the cost to make a single creature and then discount it by 75% for resurrection. This would be (30x.2)x.75= 4.5 as a price for a single resurrection. In which case, trying to divide up the cost to treat resurrection as creation on a per torton level, you should have actually only got a single mortal and then maybe a zombie.

Now, I did this equation the other day after trying to do your equation (which isn't really accurate because that would mean you were trying to resurrect the entire torton race all at once like they were all one big entity and that was also one of my concerns with using that to determine the number you got back) and decided if I wanted to have a mathematical way of going about it, this would be the correct way based on the rules. But I decided to throw that out the window and go for a generous 10 mortals for 1 IP bargain because it allowed the resurrection of mortals without breaking bank or being overpowered. Unfortunately this wasn't seen in the same light.

With that in mind, I have to deny your refund request for three reasons:
A) The "rip off" that was given to you was actually the more generous of the options that you could have received. These included requiring 22-23 IP to get enough power going to bring back souls from the afterlife and charging 4.5 IP per soul brought back (which is what it should actually cost based on the rules I've previously given).
B) You had the ability to find the actual equation to determine the cost per soul. I'd already stated the cost for creation of individuals, I'd already given the rule on creating singles as costing 1/5th of the total cost. And it should have been included in your equation to get the cost per torton because:

IMO, resurrection should function as slightly cheaper creation, with the limitation that there needs to be dead targets to actually resurrect.

C) The way that you requested a refund and tried to tell me how much it would have cost was not done so in a nice or polite way.
D) At any point you could have asked how many tortons you'd get for you 8 IP. However, you said

Use 8 Power to resurrect as many Tortons as possible.

Which is what you got. When you really should have gotten slightly less than 2 based on current rules.
E) I don't and shouldn't give do-overs when something doesn't work out for someone. If I made a mistake somewhere along the line, then that's fine, and I will fix it. But trying to get a refund when something doesn't work out for you is a no go.

You shouldn't change the number, and then make him do an action when you've upped the price to such a ridiculous number.

I did not change the number. The way that they figured out how many they would revive was not right. But the right way would have given less than two. So I went for the way that would revive a fair amount, despite it not having a basis in the rules.

I think 10 people for 1 IP is too expensive.
This way, getting 1 000 back, costs 100 IP, which is over thrice the cost.

I like the idea, making creation of life cheaper than resurrection. As it lets the dead rest.
But, how about just 2x? That way, to resurrect 1 000 takes 60 IP.

I agree with demonicspoon that resurrection should be cheaper than creation, but that makes it difficult to find a middle ground. Really 60 IP for 1000 resurrection is slightly under 17 mortals per 1 IP spent. Which I think, given that resurrection is a hard act to pull off, is a super good price. But then you'd be better off making a whole new race to save money anyways. One way that it could be fixed is to decrease the number of mortals created during race creation, as that would decrease the number of mortals in the equation and thus increase the cost per mortal, but then that would lead to less people making races. So it really is a conundrum.

[Demonic Spoon]

I disagree with your opinion on the nature of resurrection. You're talking about going into the afterlife, finding a soul that was once a torton, taking that soul back from the afterlife, and putting it back in its correct body. Its not easy, or cheap, and should require a lot of power.

I was talking from a gameplay perspective. As is, there is no reason to resurrect anyone.

What you stated was actually not the correct equation for resurrection cost per torton. That right equation is listed bellow. However it is important to note a rule that was discussed earlier:

 

-snip-

If you have seen it and you are asking how much it would create to create a single of any one creature (not enough for them to gain a permanent hold on this world), then it would probably cost a fifth of the cost. But the prices for higher beings like demi-gods and angels are the listed price per one.

-snip

So if you wanted to get the cost of resurrection per torton you would take the cost to make a single creature and then discount it by 75% for resurrection. This would be (30x.2)x.75= 4.5 as a price for a single resurrection. In which case, trying to divide up the cost to treat resurrection as creation on a per torton level, you should have actually only got a single mortal and then maybe a zombie.

A) I'm not sure how I was supposed to remember that particular response buried within the middle of the thread and somehow magically work out it applied to this particular action, when I was trying to resurrect several hundred tortons
B) I'm not making a single creature, I'm making ~300. Which seems like that be enough to have a significant hold on the world, and hence the ruling wouldn't apply.
C) Are you saying I can't create a race in installments of say 10 IP a turn, because the cost would be inflated by this ruling which I understand less the more times I read it?

Now, I did this equation the other day after trying to do your equation (which isn't really accurate because that would mean you were trying to resurrect the entire torton race all at once like they were all one big entity and that was also one of my concerns with using that to determine the number you got back) and decided if I wanted to have a mathematical way of going about it, this would be the correct way based on the rules. But I decided to throw that out the window and go for a generous 10 mortals for 1 IP bargain because it allowed the resurrection of mortals without breaking bank or being overpowered. Unfortunately this wasn't seen in the same light.

With that in mind, I have to deny your refund request for three reasons:
A) The "rip off" that was given to you was actually the more generous of the options that you could have received. These included requiring 22-23 IP to get enough power going to bring back souls from the afterlife and charging 4.5 IP per soul brought back (which is what it should actually cost based on the rules I've previously given). 

Oh yes, you were very generous not using the even more inflated costs you made up.

B) You had the ability to find the actual equation to determine the cost per soul. I'd already stated the cost for creation of individuals, I'd already given the rule on creating singles as costing 1/5th of the total cost. And it should have been included in your equation to get the cost per torton because:

I'm not doing individuals though, the way I thought it would work, I would have resurrected 300. I'm not sure why you're focusing so much on the individuals pricing here.

IMO, resurrection should function as slightly cheaper creation, with the limitation that there needs to be dead targets to actually resurrect.

C) The way that you requested a refund and tried to tell me how much it would have cost was not done so in a nice or polite way.
D) At any point you could have asked how many tortons you'd get for you 8 IP. However, you said

Use 8 Power to resurrect as many Tortons as possible.

Which is what you got. When you really should have gotten slightly less than 2 based on current rules. 

The rules you made up in response to me wanting to resurrect my entire race. Once again, so generous. As to me not being polite, I've been feeling like I've been getting the short end of the stick lately so I'm a bit snappish. (The portal thing, the massive casualties as a result of the battle, and now the resurrection was a massive failure)

As to me not asking, I thought I had asked, at the beginning of the game. But apparently I had misunderstood how this worked. You could have perhaps thought, wait a minute, does Demonic Spoon maybe not understand how this works, maybe he doesn't remember that one thing I mentioned in response to another player about how something he doesn't think should apply to this works?

E) I don't and shouldn't give do-overs when something doesn't work out for someone. If I made a mistake somewhere along the line, then that's fine, and I will fix it. But trying to get a refund when something doesn't work out for you is a no go.

The problem here is, that I wasted the the points because the rules of how resurrection works were unclear. It would have been more efficient to save them up and make another 1000 tortons. It slows the game down significantly if we have to ask a hundred questions for every action.

You shouldn't change the number, and then make him do an action when you've upped the price to such a ridiculous number.

I did not change the number. The way that they figured out how many they would revive was not right. But the right way would have given less than two. So I went for the way that would revive a fair amount, despite it not having a basis in the rules.

You seem to be focusing on "resurrecting a single creature" a lot. That was never my intention so I'm not sure why you are clinging to that pricing.

I think 10 people for 1 IP is too expensive.
This way, getting 1 000 back, costs 100 IP, which is over thrice the cost.

I like the idea, making creation of life cheaper than resurrection. As it lets the dead rest.
But, how about just 2x? That way, to resurrect 1 000 takes 60 IP.

I agree with demonicspoon that resurrection should be cheaper than creation, but that makes it difficult to find a middle ground. Really 60 IP for 1000 resurrection is slightly under 17 mortals per 1 IP spent. Which I think, given that resurrection is a hard act to pull off, is a super good price. But then you'd be better off making a whole new race to save money anyways. One way that it could be fixed is to decrease the number of mortals created during race creation, as that would decrease the number of mortals in the equation and thus increase the cost per mortal, but then that would lead to less people making races. So it really is a conundrum.

What you could do, is set a turn limit to the amount of resurrections that can be done, as in, the gods can only turn back the laws of death so much. This would be a global limit, like say 200 mortals, and then if one god resurrects 50 mortals, another god can only resurrect another 150.

[Roboson]

30/1000 * 0.75 = 0.0225 per torton resurrected. 8/0.0225 = 356 Tortons resurrected, not 80.

Your equation places the number of tortons resurrected as a result of cost of creation divided out to individual tortons (30/1000). That is why I focused on the cost per torton resurrected.


As for you being unpleasant due to the recent events in game, that sucks, but its largely due to you getting outspent. The way you assumed the portal thing would work out would mean crazyabe spent 10 IP for an effect and Ardent Debater spent 9 IP to have his effect "noped" by crazyabe and AD's points would have just evaporated. Which would have been quite unfair. Plus some Luminites would have made it out, no matter how much crazyabe spent. But really that's an issue that crazyabe should be bringing up, if anyone. And sending your soldiers in to take a fortified position was gonna cost you lots of lives no matter what. To put it in DF terms, you sent your cheesemakers and weavers and other civilian dwarves to invade a fortified goblin camp full of equipped trained dwarf hating goblins. Having a Retinazer helps a lot, but it can only kill so many so fast.


C) Sure you could, but you wouldn't get anything out of it until all the points are invested. So if you want to make a race and do it in 10 point installments, you wont have a race until the third installment.

[Happy Demon]

I think the double cost is a good idea because it takes into consideration how much the race cost to begin with.
So a powerful creature takes power to revive. While something weak, is pretty much nothing.

Basically, I'm worried about the extremes that could happen.
So a system that scales should pretty much solve that.

It also effectively prevents the resurrection of demigods.
So you will actually hesitate to send them somewhere dangerous.

Then again, I'm weird.

[Taricus]

Anyway, Pricecheck on cursing the southern continent to make the omnifruit tree unable to take root there?

From earlier, may've been missed.

[Roboson]

Anyway, Pricecheck on cursing the southern continent to make the omnifruit tree unable to take root there?

From earlier, may've been missed.

More than its worth. Demonic Spoon has spent dozens of points on the tenacity of those trees. They can grow anywhere, including in permafrost soil. I'm surprised it hasn't colonized hell yet.