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Author Topic: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney! Tourney is finished! Hooray Bay 12  (Read 15819 times)

vogonpoet

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Re: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney!
« Reply #150 on: May 20, 2016, 02:46:15 am »

The XP budget is certainly tighter now - I usually feel a bit underdeveloped when entering my first Lair branch, and then again upon entering Depths for the first time. It feels like I have a lot of late game deaths at the top or bottom of the staircase down to U1 - those entry vaults... ouch. From that standpoint, the levels they trimmed from the Lair sub-branches are a lot more significant than the changes to Orc, which was never very XP rich to begin with.

My current dudebro, a CeHu of Okie, doesn't have any sInv, which makes the Spider rune level a bit dodgy. Still, I just opened the game up, and I am in Shoals instead. Why the fuck am I in Shoals? I really need sleep apparently. Better to do Spider without sInv and tele-park the ghost moths if I have to, than saunter around Shoals with just MR++ and no evasion. Seriously, I hate Shoals - water nymphs that can disable the stairs you're freaking standing on, demon trident of disto wielding scaly fish folk, fucking sirens and satyrs lol can't run from me lol can't walk towards me gaaa.

//Off to spider.

Well congrats Aoi. A win is a win


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Tiruin

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Re: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney!
« Reply #151 on: May 20, 2016, 11:58:17 pm »

The XP budget is certainly tighter now
While I'm comparing from 0.7, I've never felt this underleveled before ._. I've finished all branches but the Tomb, Pan, Hell, and Zot 5 and I have no skill up to 27.
...That or I spread myself out too much >_>
Good news is that I've until Sunday to finish my game and I believe it may be going swell :D If I can ask aid on my latest character, it would be dearly appreciated since I'm pondering on ever facing Zot5 and finishing the game OR using Zin and facing Hell (Or TSO @Abyss, but I'm unsure on my rMut because I have nothing that even gives me this >_>). 4 runes and I feel underpowered ._.
...And maybe this is just me being silly with mutations because I got the 2nd tier of genetic drift, which I read up is a good 75% beneficial mutation thing!
Happy to also add that nothing I have can face balls of fire--other than a greatsword of cold that I had to rebrand to.

Also thanks @Flame99 for your epic help. :3
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Arcvasti

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Re: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney!
« Reply #152 on: May 21, 2016, 12:01:30 am »

And we've got another death to that fucking hellion vault. I keep forgetting they're fast, so they get more then one Damnation per turn if you engage for long enough. Not that I'd probably have lasted long afterwards, honestly. A bardiche does NOT do enough damage quickly enough to justify the death from a thousand cuts that lacking a shield inflicts on you, even with Haste. Since there's only like two days left, its probably time to start breaking out the MiFis and going full ham to try and score one last win. Screw trying to have an interesting character, I want to bash in heads and win games, dammit.



@Tiruin:

Zin gives 100% rMut at max piety. You should at least be able to do Abyss just fine, although I'm not sure how Zin stands up to Pan.
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Tiruin

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Re: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney!
« Reply #153 on: May 21, 2016, 12:03:10 am »

@Tiruin:

Zin gives 100% rMut at max piety. You should at least be able to do Abyss just fine, although I'm not sure how Zin stands up to Pan.
I want moar genetic drift mutations though! T_T Where else can I shift to TSO and train while waiting for that to happen?

Also is it possible to show my current, living character at the present here?

Just seeking for advice since I bet this'll be my only game that I can finish in the time limit.



Screw trying to have an interesting character, I want to bash in heads and win games, dammit.
I feel like a squiggly ant now. What with the 70k+ turns I've spent doing things like stash and run. xD
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 12:32:48 am by Tiruin »
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Jiharo

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Re: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney!
« Reply #154 on: May 21, 2016, 06:13:32 am »

Also is it possible to show my current, living character at the present here?

State of your character at the time of last save is at https://crawl.project357.org/morgue/Tiruin/Tiruin.txt. I think it is also updated when you '#'-dump the character, but I am not sure.

Nice job, I never ever got that far, so no advice from me.
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Drakale

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Re: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney!
« Reply #155 on: May 21, 2016, 03:56:21 pm »

And we've got another death to that fucking hellion vault. I keep forgetting they're fast, so they get more then one Damnation per turn if you engage for long enough. Not that I'd probably have lasted long afterwards, honestly. A bardiche does NOT do enough damage quickly enough to justify the death from a thousand cuts that lacking a shield inflicts on you, even with Haste.

Last time I did that vault I used passage of golubria to break them up as melee, casting it in a free spot and waiting for them to enter it and killing them one by one. Takes some time but it's perfectly safe. I'm now taking that spell on every class when I can, it's really useful in many situations.
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vogonpoet

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Re: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney!
« Reply #156 on: May 21, 2016, 05:18:58 pm »

And we've got another death to that fucking hellion vault. I keep forgetting they're fast, so they get more then one Damnation per turn if you engage for long enough. Not that I'd probably have lasted long afterwards, honestly. A bardiche does NOT do enough damage quickly enough to justify the death from a thousand cuts that lacking a shield inflicts on you, even with Haste. Since there's only like two days left, its probably time to start breaking out the MiFis and going full ham to try and score one last win. Screw trying to have an interesting character, I want to bash in heads and win games, dammit.


More stuff I don't understand... I thought shields are even more useless in Extended than everywhere else, what with their inability to block any of:
  • Bolt spells: Bolt of Fire, Bolt of Cold, Lightning Bolt, Bolt of Draining, Venom Bolt, Bolt of Magma, Bolt of Inaccuracy, Shock
  • Explosions: Fireball, Hellfire, Fire Storm, Ice Storm, Conjure Ball Lightning, Lee's Rapid Deconstruction, exploding-branded weapons
  • Other electricity-based beams: Chain Lightning
  • Enchantments: Agony, Pain, etc
  • Other ranged attacks that are not beams: Shatter, Tornado, Airstrike, Smite, Ozocubu's Refrigeration.

So most of the dangerous stuff (like for instance, that lovely Hellfire) bypasses shields completely, and even for stuff shields do block, they are only really effective like, once per turn, so its not like they are helping you much if you get surrounded by melee bruisers either???

I mean sure, my casters wear bucklers, but my melee dudes? Will a shield really improve my melee dudes survivability?
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Arcvasti

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Re: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney!
« Reply #157 on: May 21, 2016, 06:53:51 pm »

And we've got another death to that fucking hellion vault. I keep forgetting they're fast, so they get more then one Damnation per turn if you engage for long enough. Not that I'd probably have lasted long afterwards, honestly. A bardiche does NOT do enough damage quickly enough to justify the death from a thousand cuts that lacking a shield inflicts on you, even with Haste. Since there's only like two days left, its probably time to start breaking out the MiFis and going full ham to try and score one last win. Screw trying to have an interesting character, I want to bash in heads and win games, dammit.


More stuff I don't understand... I thought shields are even more useless in Extended than everywhere else, what with their inability to block any of:
  • Bolt spells: Bolt of Fire, Bolt of Cold, Lightning Bolt, Bolt of Draining, Venom Bolt, Bolt of Magma, Bolt of Inaccuracy, Shock
  • Explosions: Fireball, Hellfire, Fire Storm, Ice Storm, Conjure Ball Lightning, Lee's Rapid Deconstruction, exploding-branded weapons
  • Other electricity-based beams: Chain Lightning
  • Enchantments: Agony, Pain, etc
  • Other ranged attacks that are not beams: Shatter, Tornado, Airstrike, Smite, Ozocubu's Refrigeration.

So most of the dangerous stuff (like for instance, that lovely Hellfire) bypasses shields completely, and even for stuff shields do block, they are only really effective like, once per turn, so its not like they are helping you much if you get surrounded by melee bruisers either???

I mean sure, my casters wear bucklers, but my melee dudes? Will a shield really improve my melee dudes survivability?

Even blocking one hit a turn[And shields block more then that] adds up. The problem I was having was in long drawn out fights that bled my mediocre merfolk hp bit by bit with hits that snuck through my EV until I had to burn absurd amounts of consumables to survive. This is a situation that I ran into a lot less with my traditional sword and boarders. It wasn't so much in Extended as it was in Depths and Zot and such, which left me with far less consumables then I was used to and thus made me doubt my ability to survive Extended with less resources.

That said, I do still maintain that Eveningstar + shield > Great mace. There's no way two points of extra base damage are worth taking more damage. Long blades are iffier, but I'd say the advantage is still with sword and board. And UC w/shield is almost exactly the same in damage output as UC without shield. It definitely does not work that way with polearms, since a Bardiche does six more points of base damage then the useless demon trident and axes have almost as big a gap between their best one-handed and best two-handed.
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Empty

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Re: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney!
« Reply #158 on: May 21, 2016, 07:20:40 pm »

Is it possible to play the tournament with tiles? I can't be bothered with ascii anymore.
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Aoi

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Re: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney!
« Reply #159 on: May 21, 2016, 07:50:08 pm »

Is it possible to play the tournament with tiles? I can't be bothered with ascii anymore.

I've been playing at http://crawl.akrasiac.org:8080/#lobby which uses tiles.
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Re: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney!
« Reply #160 on: May 21, 2016, 08:13:38 pm »

Neverminds. Didn't notice the date. Heh.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 08:17:42 pm by Empty »
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Aoi

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Re: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney!
« Reply #161 on: May 21, 2016, 08:18:54 pm »

And UC w/shield is almost exactly the same in damage output as UC without shield.

Wait, are you sure about that? It definitely didn't used to be the case, but I never read the changelogs that thoroughly.

Also just to do a drive-by on this whole 'What weapon' thing, you can never go wrong with Blade Hands.

As of the last version or few, shields don't decrease UC speed, but you still lose your offhand punch, which is... what, up to a quarter of your damage?
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Tiruin

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Re: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney!
« Reply #162 on: May 21, 2016, 11:59:46 pm »

Really bothered that I can't think of a branch that doesn't Malmutate ._. (in my context: only Hells, Pan, Tomb, Zot:5, and the Abyss are still open to me. I hilariously cut off the only Ziggurat portal at...level 9, not knowing that there's a banner at LEVEL 10. :I)
I just really want to also ride out this nice RAPID EVOLUTION mutation I picked up too, but from shifting to TSO from Zin (from TSO).

Also in 0.18, it doesn't seem like the piety is cut in half when you shift between good gods?


And UC w/shield is almost exactly the same in damage output as UC without shield.

Wait, are you sure about that? It definitely didn't used to be the case, but I never read the changelogs that thoroughly.

Also just to do a drive-by on this whole 'What weapon' thing, you can never go wrong with Blade Hands.

As of the last version or few, shields don't decrease UC speed, but you still lose your offhand punch, which is... what, up to a quarter of your damage?
Same goes for Formicids, however I can attest that...

And we've got another death to that fucking hellion vault. I keep forgetting they're fast, so they get more then one Damnation per turn if you engage for long enough. Not that I'd probably have lasted long afterwards, honestly. A bardiche does NOT do enough damage quickly enough to justify the death from a thousand cuts that lacking a shield inflicts on you, even with Haste. Since there's only like two days left, its probably time to start breaking out the MiFis and going full ham to try and score one last win. Screw trying to have an interesting character, I want to bash in heads and win games, dammit.


More stuff I don't understand... I thought shields are even more useless in Extended than everywhere else, what with their inability to block any of:
  • Bolt spells: Bolt of Fire, Bolt of Cold, Lightning Bolt, Bolt of Draining, Venom Bolt, Bolt of Magma, Bolt of Inaccuracy, Shock
  • Explosions: Fireball, Hellfire, Fire Storm, Ice Storm, Conjure Ball Lightning, Lee's Rapid Deconstruction, exploding-branded weapons
  • Other electricity-based beams: Chain Lightning
  • Enchantments: Agony, Pain, etc
  • Other ranged attacks that are not beams: Shatter, Tornado, Airstrike, Smite, Ozocubu's Refrigeration.

So most of the dangerous stuff (like for instance, that lovely Hellfire) bypasses shields completely, and even for stuff shields do block, they are only really effective like, once per turn, so its not like they are helping you much if you get surrounded by melee bruisers either???

I mean sure, my casters wear bucklers, but my melee dudes? Will a shield really improve my melee dudes survivability?

Even blocking one hit a turn[And shields block more then that] adds up. The problem I was having was in long drawn out fights that bled my mediocre merfolk hp bit by bit with hits that snuck through my EV until I had to burn absurd amounts of consumables to survive. This is a situation that I ran into a lot less with my traditional sword and boarders. It wasn't so much in Extended as it was in Depths and Zot and such, which left me with far less consumables then I was used to and thus made me doubt my ability to survive Extended with less resources.

That said, I do still maintain that Eveningstar + shield > Great mace. There's no way two points of extra base damage are worth taking more damage. Long blades are iffier, but I'd say the advantage is still with sword and board. And UC w/shield is almost exactly the same in damage output as UC without shield. It definitely does not work that way with polearms, since a Bardiche does six more points of base damage then the useless demon trident and axes have almost as big a gap between their best one-handed and best two-handed.
Given my experiences with a reflection amulet unique (unsure if shields have the reflect brand now), my shield can reflect AND block bolt spells (how many times I've had the calming humor of seeing several bolts being reflected back to their owners...), but it can't reflect any of the rest or block them.

Although given the high # of blocks I see in my own sheet (thanks Jiharo), I probably am not counting as I BET I've blocked (and then reflected) other ranged attacks and wand zaps too ._. Unless I'm misreading 'extended'.
And yes, shields improve survivability by a long-shot, especially in open-areas where the enemies can hit you; you'll either need good resistances or ways of escaping rather than a shield.
Shields didn't help me vs. torment and other annoying HP bar crushers.

Though I may be biased since the last game I did play was back in 0.7.

Is it possible to play the tournament with tiles? I can't be bothered with ascii anymore.

I've been playing at http://crawl.akrasiac.org:8080/#lobby which uses tiles.
There's a linkie in the server list that says
Code: [Select]
Graphical play via WebSocket: WebTilesAnd clicking the WebTiles brings you to the server that uses said tiles. I've been playing fully on tiles since ever (since multiple types of monsters spawned using the same letter and my color-visualization hasn't improved T_T). I've been playing on this link to the Australian Server.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 12:01:49 am by Tiruin »
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IcyTea31

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Re: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney!
« Reply #163 on: May 22, 2016, 12:43:03 am »

(unsure if shields have the reflect brand now)
Donald got his shield of reflection in 0.6 in 2010. It's been in for quite a while.
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Tiruin

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Re: Dungeon Crawl 0.18 tourney!
« Reply #164 on: May 22, 2016, 01:08:48 am »

(unsure if shields have the reflect brand now)
Donald got his shield of reflection in 0.6 in 2010. It's been in for quite a while.
I know T_T That's why I miss it and have been wondering if they still exist given that other items now have the {Reflect} characteristic.

Am also still lost in flailing around on what is the better (less-mutationable) training area to go to (in my last post), or that I can just get the orb and run for it... :-\
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