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[escaped lurker]

Well then; I've read up on this thread over the last few days. Truth be told, it was a very good read.
A bona fide "Bloody Countess" - now thats bay12 in action, I guess.

I especially like, how the orcs have been portrayed; Their blunt way of putting things and gains out of relationships, which would be somewhat of a complete taboo for "us humans", left a very nice impression on me. To put it simply, they are positively UN-human, but are still very much relatable, as they and their behaviour is not IN-human. You can't really envison yourself to act like them, but their ways are not completely "alien", as many "unhuman" races are often portrayed in fantasy. (If the author even bothers to change their culture and psyche from human norms.) No, really, my respect - that's a good piece of work.
As someone who dabbles in writing, I found this to be quite inspirational - or maybe "educational", would be a better way to put it?

We~ll. So much for that. Guess I'll get to read the latest suggestions / motives, before I turly get involved with the suggestions; I doubt our duchess acts in a "clear-cut", or, rather "pure" way, as that the actions I have read from her, can be taken as her true intentions.

Inviting them to dinner is a pretty good idea, though. We could bring out our wight as a server and Starling to... be Starling, mostly, in an effort to impress them with our dark magic. And because both of them are probably getting bored hiding in our basement.

Well, we don't actually need to handle things in "the orc way", seeing as their claim is rather dubious at best, and could easily be over-ruled by our authority. But, since most of our current forces actually are orcs, we should try to keep up appearances. Since such maneuvering seems right up their alley, doing as you suggest seems like a good idea. At the very least, I see no real way this could hurt us, sans very bad rolls. If push comes to shove, we can always take more... lethal measures, like Tom suggests.

[Tomcost]

I'm liking Plan B for the fights.

Oh, right. I think that I ignored it because I didn't consider it feasible enough, but there is no harm to try. Also, by renouncing to those souls, the Shaman may end up being more agreeable.

Let's this be the first plan, then default to others if this doens't work.

Our argument is simple, they attempted crimes in our domain against our interests, so we will judge them. I feel like the Null priest is going to be the most pressing issue, and we can let they kill her, as not even Scales likes her.

So, the order of things to concede on the negotiation:

1) We offer the share of our souls from those we are saving, 10 souls, and the Null priest (as it is not interesting to us).
2) If that doesn't work, we offer the rest of our souls, as a gesture of goodwill.
3) We concede the right to execute Null's family (or at least for it to go to the trial by combat), because we are bringing Scales back.
4) We are fucked, and everything went wrong.

And for judging them, we can let them in jail some time as a symbolic action, to not offend clan Ivy, and then work on building better relations with the mercenaries.

Slight complication: Mason would probably really like his daughter's soul back rather than having it fed to Chieftess Ivy. If we wanted to help him out, we could request to purchase that particular gem now for another soul at a future date.

To be fair, if we get 25% share of the souls, then we may just renounce the ones that come from those 41 we don't want to kill (10 souls). But yeah, +1.

Kidnapping parlaying guests probably sets a bad precedent. I'd rather just negotiate him down to something reasonable; orcs are bad at negotiation, and there are probably things a clan that small could use better than random box artifacts. Like our favor, for example.

Plus, as mentioned nobody's in any actual danger. We can just let Snakeyes, Mason, and 1/3 of Typhoon Swarm chill out in orctown for a bit if we need to.

Inviting them to dinner is a pretty good idea, though. We could bring out our wight as a server and Starling to... be Starling, mostly, in an effort to impress them with our dark magic. And because both of them are probably getting bored hiding in our basement.

Yeah, I think that I forgot to say that we should negotiate first to pay them a couple thousand silver or so instead of the contents of the vault.

So yeah, negotiate first, and have good relations. If that doesn't work, then I default to my plan.

"Well perhaps I could benefit from being a Chimeric Abomination with a bunch of extra arms... but I'm not sure I want to be that freaky."

Spoiler: Don't Be Ridiculous (click to show/hide)

We should ask her when she is more mature. Being an abomination will likely separate her from normal social interactions even more than what she already it.

We need a new sacrifice for the cave. Damn it. We really need a better system for this than snooping around the guardhouse every six hours.

We may still get one of the executed as a sacrifice. It depends on how much do we want to bargain to get to plan B

I'm tempted to let word of the cannons spread. Would also fit better with the idea of using them as threats rather than to destroy our beautiful castles. It would, of course, imply to the crown (and any allies we might gain) that we intend to go all the way.

+1, I guess.


EDIT:

We have one more thing for the negotiation: remember the arsonist who burned a shrine to Trance? Well, we can gift him (in shackles) to the shaman.

[IronyOwl]

Well then; I've read up on this thread over the last few days. Truth be told, it was a very good read.
A bona fide "Bloody Countess" - now thats bay12 in action, I guess.

We~ll. So much for that. Guess I'll get to read the latest suggestions / motives, before I turly get involved with the suggestions; I doubt our duchess acts in a "clear-cut", or, rather "pure" way, as that the actions I have read from her, can be taken as her true intentions.

Going through it all in one-ish swoop, what's your impression of the kind of person our noble Duchess is? I've been getting it as it comes, so I'm not sure I have an overly coherent image of her.

Our argument is simple, they attempted crimes in our domain against our interests, so we will judge them. I feel like the Null priest is going to be the most pressing issue, and we can let they kill her, as not even Scales likes her.

And/or (against the Confessor, at least) that this is the most practical approach for avoiding/softening an Incident.

So, the order of things to concede on the negotiation:

1) We offer the share of our souls from those we are saving, 10 souls, and the Null priest (as it is not interesting to us).
2) If that doesn't work, we offer the rest of our souls, as a gesture of goodwill.
3) We concede the right to execute Null's family (or at least for it to go to the trial by combat), because we are bringing Scales back.
4) We are fucked, and everything went wrong.

And for judging them, we can let them in jail some time as a symbolic action, to not offend clan Ivy, and then work on building better relations with the mercenaries.

I'd rather forfeit the entire batch to solidify the idea that we're taking full and total responsibility and the hit for the incident. In addition to the gesture, it'd strengthen the idea behind letting us try them. In general, at least; there's no telling what Crank will consider valid reasoning for something like this.

I'd rather try and let Scales and family off as well, since it's more polite than bringing her back and avoids the mess with trial by combat. A public trial where we appear fair might do wonders for getting the mercs more on our side. I'll admit I'm not sure how the orcs would take it, but they'd probably be relatively okay with it since they know it's a strange, foreign set of laws. And because, in both cases, they've crossed but are potentially useful to us.

I'm actually unclear on the Null Priestess' situation. Technically we'd be trying the Orcess Lash, Scales' mother, and Yussief, one of Wikes' mercs. Their innocence or guilt would then ripple through their... association web, meaning Scales or Wikes get off if they do. We claimed that was 41 people, but Wikes counts for 33 (Himself + 22 employees + 7 family + 3 investors) and Scales for 10 (Herself + Mother + Sister + 7 Employees). Leaving Shaleheart out of that because she's guilty of Null worship even if Scales isn't guilty of harboring Null worship still leaves the numbers off by one, so I'm not sure if her fate is tied to Scales' mother.

But since the non-combat executions have already gone through, I'm pretty sure that makes Shaleheart a, ahem, Null Issue: Either she's already been crucified and poisoned, or she's irrevocably glued to Scales and her mother.

We should ask her when she is more mature. Being an abomination will likely separate her from normal social interactions even more than what she already it.

We do have at least four years. Three and a half? There's no rush, anyway.

We might or might not want to get access to that prophecy soon, though.

We have one more thing for the negotiation: remember the arsonist who burned a shrine to Trance? Well, we can gift him (in shackles) to the shaman.

Yeah, but Gregory appears to have been saving him for a reason. He's probably more useful as an asset than an altar-warming gift.

[Tomcost]

Our argument is simple, they attempted crimes in our domain against our interests, so we will judge them. I feel like the Null priest is going to be the most pressing issue, and we can let they kill her, as not even Scales likes her.

And/or (against the Confessor, at least) that this is the most practical approach for avoiding/softening an Incident.

We should discuss this with Rash before the meeting with Crank. Maybe we can make a better argument.

I'd rather forfeit the entire batch to solidify the idea that we're taking full and total responsibility and the hit for the incident. In addition to the gesture, it'd strengthen the idea behind letting us try them.

I'll +1 this.

I'd rather try and let Scales and family off as well, since it's more polite than bringing her back and avoids the mess with trial by combat.

If we can, yes. Otherwise, I'd sacrifice them rather than the mercenaries, as they have lower implications for us, and we are going to bring Scales back anyway.

A public trial where we appear fair might do wonders for getting the mercs more on our side.

Or it can backfire if they bring the whole cartel bussiness into the table. Maybe we can discuss with the mercenaries just a superfluous trial that is only for the looks. But we are going to need to get rid of the Ivy spies somehow.

I'm actually unclear on the Null Priestess' situation.

I humbly request help from the GM to solve this mystery (this is the easiest way to clarify things)

We might or might not want to get access to that prophecy soon, though.

There is a circumstance that indicates her death over which we are going to have a lot of control. I want to surprise Fortune when she least expects it by asking if said circumstance is her marriage.

We have one more thing for the negotiation: remember the arsonist who burned a shrine to Trance? Well, we can gift him (in shackles) to the shaman.

Yeah, but Gregory appears to have been saving him for a reason. He's probably more useful as an asset than an altar-warming gift.

Still a card to play.

[IronyOwl]

We should discuss this with Rash before the meeting with Crank. Maybe we can make a better argument.

Good idea. Rash will probably be on our side, and will probably know (as far as it's possible to know) what Crank will be inclined to go for or not.

I'd rather try and let Scales and family off as well, since it's more polite than bringing her back and avoids the mess with trial by combat.

If we can, yes. Otherwise, I'd sacrifice them rather than the mercenaries, as they have lower implications for us, and we are going to bring Scales back anyway.

True.

A public trial where we appear fair might do wonders for getting the mercs more on our side.

Or it can backfire if they bring the whole cartel bussiness into the table. Maybe we can discuss with the mercenaries just a superfluous trial that is only for the looks. But we are going to need to get rid of the Ivy spies somehow.

Oooh, yeah. Wikes ranting at us about what a bastard Syzzik is would be the absolute last thing we want, especially since most of it would be true. We could probably get Redding behind us on a softer defense, but Greent and Wikes himself would probably want to unload at us. Wikes might even want that more than he wants his entire family not murdered.

Maybe a nice private trial after all, poor a precedent as that sets. Or... just not "open to the public." Greent would have an excuse to attend unless we make it rather exclusive, though. Though... Wikes himself has to be present anyway, doesn't he? If he's not going to shut up during the trial, he might not be willing to shut up after it. Our cartel connections might be coming out either way, unless he's willing to clam up about them on Redding's say-so.

We might have to do some pre-trial negotiation if we want this to go anything resembling smoothly.

The Ivy spies, being spies, might be more willing to assume we don't actually mean what we're telling the mercs, though being spies they'd also be more familiar with the idea that maybe they're the ones we don't mean what we say to.

There is a circumstance that indicates her death over which we are going to have a lot of control. I want to surprise Fortune when she least expects it by asking if said circumstance is her marriage.

Seems too straightforward, but it's worth a shot.

That said, she still doesn't seem all that keen on avoiding it herself. Maybe living a bit longer, particularly with vision, will change her mind, but so far she's said her fate is "awesome" and that "this is all insignificant," so she might actually be upset with us if we try to avoid it indefinitely.

Oh, and if it does involve marriage I can't wait to troll Denzel by repeatedly declaring her betrothal to various people.

[Tomcost]

We might have to do some pre-trial negotiation if we want this to go anything resembling smoothly.

This should be the center of our concerns right now.

Oh, and if it does involve marriage I can't wait to troll Denzel by repeatedly declaring her betrothal to various people.

Gentlemen, we have found the way to make the Crown delcare war to whoever we want. We don't like an specific orc clan? Well, Fortune is going to marry its leader! *Denzel flashes with 50k troops to obliterate the orcs

Oh, I meant, that other clan. *Denzel sighs and goes to war again.

Repeat ad nauseam.

[IronyOwl]

We might have to do some pre-trial negotiation if we want this to go anything resembling smoothly.

This should be the center of our concerns right now.

Don't forget that we have to negotiate with Crank for there to be a trial in the first place.

Otherwise, yeah. If it goes through, let's meet with Redding and Greent, or maybe Redding first, to get a grasp on the situation, then bring the two of them to talk to Wikes about it. They can give us a preliminary estimate on how Wikes is feeling about the issue, and Redding can give us a preliminary read on Greent. Who is an obstacle, but fairly involved and connected to Wikes and the "fuck you Maeris" side of this debacle, and so should be included unless Redding thinks he's going to agitate Wikes further.

Gentlemen, we have found the way to make the Crown delcare war to whoever we want. We don't like an specific orc clan? Well, Fortune is going to marry its leader! *Denzel flashes with 50k troops to obliterate the orcs

Oh, I meant, that other clan. *Denzel sighs and goes to war again.

Repeat ad nauseam.

"I am pleased to declare my daughter's betrothal to... The Plaster of Sorrows, a great slimy eel located in an underwater cave off a goblin fortress! Beware its shimmering spines!"

*Denzel's troops groan profusely*

[Tomcost]

Otherwise, yeah. If it goes through, let's meet with Redding and Greent, or maybe Redding first, to get a grasp on the situation, then bring the two of them to talk to Wikes about it. They can give us a preliminary estimate on how Wikes is feeling about the issue, and Redding can give us a preliminary read on Greent. Who is an obstacle, but fairly involved and connected to Wikes and the "fuck you Maeris" side of this debacle, and so should be included unless Redding thinks he's going to agitate Wikes further.

So, the idea would be:

Meeting with Redding>Meeting with reeding and Greent>Meeting with Redding, Greent and Wikes (unless just Redding and son talk to Wikes on their own because he doesn't like us).

We need to mention how we are planning to lower the prices by 80%, but we need 32 brewers to do so, which is no small number of personnel.

[VoidSlayer]

Oh I was going to chime in about choosing the super demon as our champion.

What we could do is kill the two enemy champions, then surround the mercenaries and let the demon go hog wild, tearing them to pieces while clan Ivy surrounds them.  Any who surrender get sacrificed to be traded for zombie souls.

Then we reanimate the entire mercenary army under our control.

One way to solve the loyalty problem bloody Monday style!  Okay terribad idea out of the way for now.


Wilkes must die either way.  I don't really care if we lose the support of these mercenaries, if the move to join our enemies they wont make it out of the jungle.  Otherwise we can win them back, but not with a man who wants us dead among them.

Edit: also I have a plan for those cannons being known about by the crown.  We should totally get the extra ones and let them know.

Basically we put the cannons in the ships and let the royal navy chase.  But by then we will have crazy pirate orcs on our side.  The pirates engage the royal navy just as the "transport" ship reveals it actually has the 8 artifact cannons installed in full firing positions.  Enemy ships go boom or are captured, and now we can blockade against the king getting his new cannons while orcish pirates pillage the seas.

[Tomcost]

Oh I was going to chime in about choosing the super demon as our champion.

This could be the plan "Fuck it, I'd rather kill you all".

But I don't think that it is necessary to slaughter all the sellswords. Just by winning the duels with our great-great-great-great grandfather will be enough to coerce them into submission. We will have enough souls to bring both scales and Wikes back.

And, to prevent anything from going wrong, Gregory can coerce the inquisitors from not participating in the duel.

In lieu of this, I say that We claim all 40 souls in those boxes, barring that of Scales or Wikes (we are reserving those).

We can always return them as a gesture of goodwill.

Question: how easily could the balrog be defeated by an inquisitor?

[IronyOwl]

So, the idea would be:

Meeting with Redding>Meeting with reeding and Greent>Meeting with Redding, Greent and Wikes (unless just Redding and son talk to Wikes on their own because he doesn't like us).

We need to mention how we are planning to lower the prices by 80%, but we need 32 brewers to do so, which is no small number of personnel.

Yeah. This is going to be a complicated negotiation.

Wilkes must die either way.  I don't really care if we lose the support of these mercenaries, if the move to join our enemies they wont make it out of the jungle.  Otherwise we can win them back, but not with a man who wants us dead among them.

It's more than just overt support, it's the overall morale of the town. If everyone thinks we're a bitch, it becomes more onerous to get anything done.

Edit: also I have a plan for those cannons being known about by the crown.  We should totally get the extra ones and let them know.

Basically we put the cannons in the ships and let the royal navy chase.  But by then we will have crazy pirate orcs on our side.  The pirates engage the royal navy just as the "transport" ship reveals it actually has the 8 artifact cannons installed in full firing positions.  Enemy ships go boom or are captured, and now we can blockade against the king getting his new cannons while orcish pirates pillage the seas.

I'd be wary of risking them in naval combat, but I like the idea. Blocking sea travel tends to be one of those harmless sounding things that totally cripples somebody's ability to do anything.

Oh I was going to chime in about choosing the super demon as our champion.

This could be the plan "Fuck it, I'd rather kill you all".

But I don't think that it is necessary to slaughter all the sellswords. Just by winning the duels with our great-great-great-great grandfather will be enough to coerce them into submission. We will have enough souls to bring both scales and Wikes back.

Well, this certainly wins the "Fuck you, I ain't playin'" award.

[Tomcost]

Oh I was going to chime in about choosing the super demon as our champion.

This could be the plan "Fuck it, I'd rather kill you all".

But I don't think that it is necessary to slaughter all the sellswords. Just by winning the duels with our great-great-great-great grandfather will be enough to coerce them into submission. We will have enough souls to bring both scales and Wikes back.

Well, this certainly wins the "Fuck you, I ain't playin'" award.

Thing is, do we really want to save Wikes? Or would it be better if we just bring him back? As we are going to get his possessions, we can make him start bussiness again.

[Weirdsound]

So I finished the turn, and decided to start what I hoped would be a quick mini-dump on the Bonedusts...

Oops. I'm not finished yet, and too tired to even proofread and post what I have now. Sorry.

[Tomcost]

Oh, it doesn't matter. You have provided us with wonderful walls of text daily, you deserve some time.

[IronyOwl]

Indeed. I'm really spoiled by this game as is.

Thing is, do we really want to save Wikes? Or would it be better if we just bring him back? As we are going to get his possessions, we can make him start bussiness again.

Redding really likes him, as does half the town. "Almost executed but then the Duchess found him innocent or threw the trial by combat" would probably look much better than "Executed along with his entire family and merc company by the Duchess or her foul allies, but then she raised him as a wight who's suspiciously cool with her now."

His material worth is probably also more in his men or reputation than it is his physical possessions. And speaking of which, I think we get his house but his gear might be considered "lesser possessions" and distributed among Clan Ivy?