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Author Topic: (SG) The Redleaf Epic (Formerly Widow: A Duchess Scorned)  (Read 66286 times)

VoidSlayer

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #300 on: April 25, 2016, 06:55:57 pm »

Fine then, lets talk to him like you want, explain the whole potion business where we intend to lower the prices through mass production and getting blindsided by the clan Ivy purge.  See if he is willing to change his tune in exchange for us finding him not guilty.

My plan would be to demand that the trial of the mercenary goes to us, as it is a primarily a Dutchy thing rather then an inter-clan thing, while the orcs can have their combat.  We can NOT throw any duels though, if we plan to duel we plan to win.

VoidSlayer

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #301 on: April 25, 2016, 06:57:46 pm »

Really, what did he expect us to do about the cartel?  Kill them all and destroy potion brewing in the city for months as new businesses came online?

IronyOwl

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #302 on: April 25, 2016, 07:26:37 pm »

My plan would be to demand that the trial of the mercenary goes to us, as it is a primarily a Dutchy thing rather then an inter-clan thing, while the orcs can have their combat.  We can NOT throw any duels though, if we plan to duel we plan to win.
I'd rather just try (and hopefully acquit) both, as I don't think trial by combat particularly gives us anything. A chance to show off, I guess, but it'll piss off the mercs more when we kill one of their fighters.

Plus, we don't know what they might pull in the duel. We have a lot of heavy hitters to choose from, but there's a chance they'll guess what we're going to pick and present a good counter. Demon/Undead -> Inquisitor is the obvious concern, but they could also have solutions to our other likely options. It's a good gamble, but it's still a gamble.

I'm a little uncertain about the consequences of throwing the duel. I think the main issue is just that they'll assume we're weak, but we can counter that just by having some possible choices around. If we show up flanked by a war ogre and a tentacle demon, but then our champion is a fodder zombie, everyone will be pretty clear that we lost by choice.

Though... I guess if we're dueling because Crank won't let us hold a trial, throwing the duel might not go over well with him.

Really, what did he expect us to do about the cartel?  Kill them all and destroy potion brewing in the city for months as new businesses came online?
Good point. Syzzik may be the reason prices are so out of control, but at the moment he's still (very roughly) 1/3 of the brewing power in the entire city.

That said, he probably also wants revenge/justice on, as he put it, "the most evil man in the city, if not the kingdom." We may have a lot of PR work to do.
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Tomcost

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #303 on: April 25, 2016, 09:08:58 pm »

I realized something: we have the most powerful tool to mess with the minds of people: Yaas' perception hex.

We can hex Wikes to perceive our attempts to not kill him as just and fair, and so our standing with him will increase, without the need for slavery nor necromancy. We can later remove the curse to not leave any trace of what we did.

Weirdsound

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #304 on: April 26, 2016, 08:12:13 am »

@Tomcost: The Druid's sister was already killed. Both parties were guilty of their own crimes, so they were not tied to each other's case. You don't know why the orcs choose to tie the family and busniess to Scales; Perhaps she owns a larger share.

Well then; I've read up on this thread over the last few days. Truth be told, it was a very good read.
A bona fide "Bloody Countess" - now thats bay12 in action, I guess.

I especially like, how the orcs have been portrayed; Their blunt way of putting things and gains out of relationships, which would be somewhat of a complete taboo for "us humans", left a very nice impression on me. To put it simply, they are positively UN-human, but are still very much relatable, as they and their behaviour is not IN-human. You can't really envison yourself to act like them, but their ways are not completely "alien", as many "unhuman" races are often portrayed in fantasy. (If the author even bothers to change their culture and psyche from human norms.) No, really, my respect - that's a good piece of work.
As someone who dabbles in writing, I found this to be quite inspirational - or maybe "educational", would be a better way to put it?

Thanks. Any praise from you is high praise indeed.

When writing other species, my rule of thumb is most mortal intelligent beings have the same needs and desires [grow rich, fat, and admired, produce offspring, ensure said offspring become at least as rich, fat, and admired as they are]. The difference is in the skills and mindsets they bring to the table when trying to obtain these things.

---

(Again, sorry for the delay, infodump got out of hand. Mondays and Tuesdays are the worst days for me to be doing this anyway)

2334th Year of Man, 5th Month, 8th Day:

Sunday

You stroke Syzzik's cheek and inform him that you would rather him not waste money hushing up his purchase. "Lets send a message to the crown that we are willing to go all the way..."

He nods. "The majority of my wealth is tied up in shares of businesses run out of Titan Rock, including my shipping company. If I sell those, I can continue to draw a reasonable salary and maintain influence within that business as I manage all their gun-smuggling issues on this side of the ocean."

With a squeeze of your hand, he continues, "My partners in that business are also my friends, love; Most of them were also trophy husbands to the same woman I was married to, and the rest made their fortunes by buying in to my ideas. I will instruct them to liquidate my stock holdings, and invest them in artifact cannons, while telling them why I intend to do so and inviting them to also invest in the scheme. I do not know exactly how much money I will make between liquidating and convincing my friends to join in, so I will leave the specifics of the cannon order up to them."

He smiles, and gives you another peck on the cheek. "It is a week by horse to Port Lionfish, three by fast ship from there to Gearport, and it should take them a week or two to carry out my instructions and compose a response. So I should have a status report in about two and a half months. After that, I'd like to take you on a tour of the cities of my homeland, to win you friends, and love you openly away from the judgmental eyes of your subjects for a spell. Start finding or grooming somebody you can trust to run things in your absence now."

2334th Year of Man, 5th Month, 9th Day:

Monday

You claim a random woman in her thirties under Smith Joss' employ for the animation table, but tell the enchanter to just hold onto the souls for now; You are considering forfeiting them to take responsibility for Greent's actions.

He tells you he is trapping the souls anyway for his Chieftess, and that you are fee to claim your share anytime before the duels Friday. He wont be lableing them, however, so any souls you claim from todays victims will be random from here on out. You suppose that is fine; If you do take the spirits, it will likely be to cover Yaugur's contract.

---

Clearing some space off at the table, you invite Chief Half-Moon and his men to join you for food and negotiations.

You impress him by bringing Rugath and Starling to the table, and by the time negotiations begin in earnest, his tone is far more friendly. Like most orcs, he is direct with his intentions. He knows the vault belongs to the great tradesmen of your species from a bygone age, and desires some unique gear for himself; The Half-Moon Scythe, an artifact from before the age of man that is traditionally used as a badge of office by Chieftains of his clan, was stolen five years ago. He also notes that Virgil, Snakeyes, and company were spotted by several of the other small ruins clans, and identified as your agents. Because the incursion was witnessed, he cannot allow it to pass without some form of punishment or repayment, lest the other clans view him as weak and begin to brazenly act against him.

With his motives stated, Chief Half-Moon employs the famed orcish negoiating technique of opening with the lowest offer he will accept. He demands the right to claim at least one weapon and a set of armor of his choosing from the vault, should such items exist. He also needs to collect restitution for the crime of incursion; This restitution either needs to reflect the crime (hence his initial demand of a share of the vault for the prisoners), or needs to be grand in scale to reflect the fact that he is collecting from a wealthy and powerful person. He has a few suggestions for other forms of restitution that he would accept.

He would like one of the mead halls vacated by the clans hostile to Clan Ivy. He notes that he would be perfectly willing to wait until the mighty clan leaves the city to claim it. Any clan big enough to have a mead hall in town would be bigger, richer, and thus more useful as an ally than Half-Moon, and would surely want their hall back once it is safe for them to return.

Another form of restitution he would be open to is some sort of high honor or appointment. The right to lead a host of at least one thousand warriors on behalf of your cause would be acceptable for him, although his decision to barge into a powerful person's home to demand payment leads you to question his tactical skills. One of the Groghall soldiers mentions the courtly positions open, Half-Moon agrees he would be willing to take on the role of Master-at-Arms and call it even. He also mentions that he is considering two potential heirs, a cunning half-goblin named Dreamer, and a talented druid, ice elementalist, and potion brewer called Knot. He would consider it proper restitution if you would appoint the former your steward and the latter your court mage, and then in several years report back to him with your thoughts on who is more worthy to be the next Chieftain or Chieftess.

As you anticipated he might, the Chieftain also suggests one of the more traditional forms of Orcish payment; Bloodsharing. 'Sharing Seed' between your bloodline and Clan Half-Moon and turning over the resulting child would not only cover restitution, but would bind the small band of Orcs to your interests as kin. Deploying Dean would be the obvious solution should you choose to go this route, but the overwhelming majority of Orcs have a poor understanding of human family structure, so with a bit of clever lying you could likely get away with using any human male in the household. Chieftian Half-Moon helpfully points out that he would be willing to wait for Joy to have her baby if she is the one to participate, but you find that option more than a little inconvenient and rash, as do you find the idea of using a fertility potion and biting the bullet yourself.

After giving you these examples of possible restitution, and making sure that you understand his motivations, the orc indicates that he is willing to listen to any ideas or counter-offers regarding the restitution that you might have.

---

You find Redding at the same bar he was at last night, discussing things with a different set of mercenaries. This time you are recognized, and the room falls dead silent. Redding breaks the tension by inviting you to have a seat, and ordering you a beer. The Barkeep leers at you as he pours, so your Son-in-law forces him to drink a quarter of it to test for poison. You decide to let the rest just sit in front of you.

Redding opens the conversation by stating point-blank that he intends to use this opprotunity to its fullest, and that whichever mercenary he chooses will be more than capable of killing your champion. "If I'm crossing you in this matter so be it. I'm married to your heir. I have more to lose by letting Trevor die than I do by pissing you off, so long as I don't break the law in doing so."

His blunt choice of language might be inspired by the crowd he is sitting with, but you are fairly certain that his intention to save his friend is genuine.

"...Listen. I'm thinking of petitioning Shaman Crank to turn the trials over to me. I'll exonerate if you and Greent can talk some sense into him."

Redding pauses for a second in thought, and the large and heavily scarred sellsword sitting next to him chimes in. "Only if you promise to take execution off the table even if Redding should fail. Otherwise I'm going to gather some men and find Crank right now, and rile up the crazy orc so you have no chance of negotiating with em."

"If he gets worked up enough," Redding adds half-heartedly, clearly not happy that he is in a position to be making unfriendly demands of you, "you might be able to get him to demand to participate himself. Then I'll have to send an inquisitor to kill him, and then the whole Clan Ivy thing falls apart on us."

You don't see the two agents of Clan Ivy that are supposed to be tailing you, but you suspect they are lurking in the shadows somewhere nearby, and could be used to intercept the mercenary before he reaches Crank.

---

You remain at the bar with your son-in-law for a good portion of the night, just to make sure he doesn't do anything stupid or treacherous. Depending on who the other mercenaries sitting at the table are, his tone towards you shifts from friendly, to cordial, to downright hostile. Eventually, when the only other company is a pair of elves who are more loyal to Redding than they are to Mr. Wikes, your son-in-law breaks down, and offers some key information.

"Listen. I'm only telling you this because you are family to me, and I don't want to see family hurt," he warns, "so if you use what I'm about to say to hurt my son anymore than is absolutely necessary to protect yourself, I wont be able to forgive you."

He sighs and shakes his head, "I talked with Greent today, to find out where he stands. He opened up to me. The boy is loyal to Chasity, and on our side because he has very strong reason to believe she is the victim in all this. He told me he wants to consolidate our power, and weaken yours, so he can put a knife in your back if he finds he is wrong, or if your daughter does away with the Prince and claims the Duchy for herself."

Redding takes a long sip of whiskey. "They are in fucking love, Maeris! She promised him her hand once she got rid of Virgil's son, and eventually the Duchy, but sent him away because she didn't want their feelings for each other to be apparent before it became convenient. He says she eventually would have ousted you and Sylvester, but not until after he finished modernizing the Duchy and she was positive none of her siblings were viable heirs."

Peering through the bottom of a now empty shot glass he continues, "He thinks there is no way her actual plan would involve her marrying somebody else, unless she intended to kill that person. He also claims there is no way her actual scheme would allow her side to be cut off from Orc Country. Greent is a real go-getter. Boy managed to get both Clan Scarab and Clan Fig to secretly pledge to the cause of giving Chasity the Duchy."

Scarab and Fig are both large clans with Mead Halls in town and strong ties to the local mercenary community. If mobilized, they could each field at least a thousand warriors within the duchy. Fig also happens to be a sacred clan, and as such has smaller vassals and allies it can call upon to send even more troops.

A tear rolls down his cheek. "They are mobilizing in the jungles as we speak. Greent plans to activate them once he figures out how to get the orcs across the river, and once he knows exactly what Chasity's situation and intentions are... so he knows on whose behalf to deploy them. The boy is held up in Clan Fig's hall, with thirty of their soldiers and at least four times that many sellswords... I... I don't know what to do Maeris. The boy is brilliant... but I'm afraid he is going to get us killed... or worse get himself killed."

2334th Year of Man, 5th Month, 10th Day:

Tuesday

It is after midnight by the time you return to Groghall to change after witnessing Redding pass out at the bar and having his elf friends help drag him to bed; You are not yet done with your day, as you intend to pay a visit to Confessor Rash. Luckily the confessor was also seeking you out, and emerges from the shadows just as you remove your blouse that now reeks of cheap alcohol.

She lets you speak your piece, and after hearing you out speaks hers.

"We could try to do that," the confessor answers, "depending on what mood the voices are in, he may see the logic in handing the trial over to you."

She grins, revealing razor sharp teeth, as if to remind you that her goblin and demon blood mean the usual rules for negotiating with Orcs do not apply to her. "Or we could arrange a deal. Ensure their fighter for the mercenary captain outmatches ours, and our fighter for the druid outmatches theirs. The Mercs get their leader back, neither side is completely humiliated, and we can all sit down, get on the same page, and solidify your position."

"That... is unexpectedly pragmatic of you," you reply nervously.

"I prefer pragmatism when I can go behind Cranks back. He doesn't like goblin tricks. If it were my call to make alone, I would have let you try all the people plotting against you in the first place." The confessor grins, "I know the Chieftess has big plans, and that your bloodline plays a key role in them. I want to get in good with you, and if I were calling the shots, Clan Ivy would be completely subservient to your will while fighting your war."

The mysterious orc bends down to help you with a difficult latch on your clothes, and pops back up, still grinning, to continue. "Let me sweeten that plan for you. The fighter we arrange to die on our side shall be High Shaman Crank. We goad him into fighting for the death of the mercenaries, and make sure they send a powerful inquisitor to neutralize and destroy him. Then I shall take over leading the worldly affairs of the clan, and you can take the Shaman's Juicy one-of-a-kind soul. I'll even have an enchanter seal it for you, so you can pawn it off to any demon of your choosing."

You catch yourself drooling. Someone with the correct knowhow could make two or three greater demons from a soul as souped-up as Cranks, making it so valuable that you couldn't price it off the top of your head. Hell, just feeding it to a demon you command would likely cause them to rapidly grow into a being of your father's present magnitude. "...And then what do we do?"

Confessor Rash's grin expresses some of her demonic blood, as it grows so wide that the tips of her lips are right next to her eyeballs. "Then, my sister, I provide my expert council where needed, and ensure that Clan Ivy truly acts on your orders and in your interests. Trance is already guiding your daughter to sew a fanatic love for our cause through her sermons. My agents and your dark magic will cause people on your lands to fear our wrath. Combined, the forces of love and fear will win you the complete loyalty of your subjects so that you may focus on your enemy."

You sigh, this seems to good to be true. There had to be a catch. "What do you gain from answering to me?"

The grins fades as she ponders her response, as if weighing something heavy. "Ahh.... shucks. You are kin. And important. I can tell you. After fifteen hundred years, Chieftess Ivy has completed the necessary rites and is prepared to reveal the true power of the gate. She wont tell us exactly what that entails, but it is supposed to ensure that Trance and her followers will inherit the world."

"Before she can pull the trigger, however, she wants to carry out some final preparations regarding the politics of both the mortal and demonic realms." The Orc abruptly places her pointer finger on your chest, and her sharp goblin-like claw draws a bit of blood between and just above your breasts, "You and your bloodline have been chosen to play a key role in making these preparations. The Chieftess doesn't bother explaining it to me, lots of Dark Magic stuff I wont understand, but does say it could take a decade at least or generations at the most. I would like to live long enough to witness the true opening of the gate, whatever that may be, so I want you strong enough to do the will of Trance with greater haste."

---

@Tomcost: Most greater demons can easily dispatch an inquisitor of average talent, and even above average inquisitors with some difficulty. Balrogs are greater demons that specialize in combat, and as such can be counted on to deal with all but the most elite inquisitors such as your sister's husband and his most important guards and underlings. As it just so happens, you ninja'd me as I was dumping on the history of House Bonedust, and included in that dump are a few nuggets of wisdom that imply Yagur might be better suited to deal with the inquisition than most of his kind...

A Brief History of House Bonedust and Their Partnership with Tivavarav:

You lie in bed after Confessor Rash leaves. Between the schemes of orc goddesses, unaffiliated deep goddesses, and your new boyfriend it is seeming more and more likely that your endgame is no longer the reclamation of Redleaf Duchy but the overthrow of the entire Emmit Dynasty.

History tells of a situation, three hundred years ago, when dark mages aligned with goblins and demons to rebel against the crown. You studied those events well in youth, and likely would have even if historical lore wasn't one of your passions, for that rebellion gave birth to the modern House of Bonedust.

As sleep approaches, your thoughs begin to lose focus, and some memories of your own upbringing begin to intermingle with the cold facts of your bloodline's history.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Tomcost

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #305 on: April 26, 2016, 10:13:39 am »

I'm still proud of our Great-great-great grandfather. (That is our relation with Yaugur, right?)

So, let's see what to say:

-With Redding, the mercs and the scarred merc:

Execution if off the table. If we don't talk sense into him, we will disciplinate him with some time in jail. We don't want to disrupt all the mercenary bussiness here. In fact we will work to make things better. Do not mention the cartel because they will get infuriated just by hearing it.

Just in case this doesn't go as planned, we should say loudly that trying to harm Crank would be something foolish and that his agents are everywhere and would stop it before it even starts. I hope the agents take the hint.

-With drunk Redding and the elves:

He is just too drunk to be talked to. And we don't want to discuss politics of that caliber in a bar. But we mean no more harm than what is necessary, and we certainly don't want to kill a guy who can recruit two powerful clans. We will discuss this another day.

By the way, my personal posture in this whole Chastity bussiness is as follows:

Chastity is a clever and power hungry little bitch who was too young to properly know what she was getting into, and was outplayed by people who did. She tried to gain power, and now she has none, because the actual power lies in Denzel. We shouldn't trust her, but she shouldn't be a great problem either.
She played with Greent's emotions into making her one of her goons. We will have to heavily work with curses and deception to manipulate him into properly follwing us. Until we can do it, we should play on his side, so that he plays in ours.

-With Confessor Rash:
((I love negotiation with Goblins! We need to do this more often))

I agree to her plan. But before doing anything, we should ask if other agents are hearing this, or if there would be some defection on Clan Ivy's ranks because of this.

If everything is safe, then continue and agree with her plan. But she has to guarantee that Crank will participate in the mercenary fight.

We later talk with Redding, in private, and organize a powerful inquisitor to be sent to kill the Shaman. We can even try to bless the guy if necessary (as Crank is still powerful), and let Redding choose the poor guy who is going to be killed. Because death will be assured for that one. So he better choose someone he doens't like.

After that, we collect all of our souls, exchange one of them for Mason's daughter's soul, and trade with Tiv the following:

-We negotiate a contract for Yaugur for a reduced duration. If we can make it for just one or two days, it would be ideal. Otherwise, I guess that we pay the price for the whole month.
-We buy with the leftover souls as much scrap as possible to reanimate as many bodies as we can.

Then, on the day of the trial by combat, we march from the Dark Arts cave with our army of the death, our Balrog, and the rest of our demons and undead (sans Wednesday and Lilly, who are to remain concealed or without the public knowing that they are foul creatures) towards the site of the fights. We announce that Crank will fight for the mercenaries, and that he will be the fighter representing Clan Ivy, and that our beloved Balrog will fight for the druids, in the name of House Bonedust.

If the parade is too much, you can say so. I just want to show our strength, and be respected.

Then we let the fights have their defined courses.

With Crank's soul, I would like to haggle for Tiv to open up a position for another ascended Bonedust. Specifically us, once we are old enough and want to retire.

Thoughts?

VoidSlayer

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #306 on: April 26, 2016, 12:33:30 pm »

Nah, I would prefer to remain as an undead on this side, demonic places are rare and we are not even a manifestation yet.

We should keep the demon soul for now, have Dean start his manifestation and then present him the powerful demonic soul as something to absorb later.  We can kick him up to super powerful half-demon right away, maybe an equal to our great grandfather in time.

Alternatively we could use the soul to make some kind of demonic dark magic weapon or mage aid that can only be used by a manifestation, like some kind of weapon that needs to bind to the body.

With that history we should REALLY tell Tiv about the half-drow girl.  The idea of passing off some extra soul cleaning work to her sounds even better then before.  She can temp when she has time, get training for now, payment later and has a source of souls that are not murdered in front of her.

For the vault negotiations, how about we give him the weapon and armor, AFTER they have been studied, and offer him the first divine soul enchanted weapon, in the form of a new scythe, we craft if we can use the knowledge to make more powerful weapons.  If we find we can not craft such a thing we then pay say 5000 in silver and a Bloodsharing.  We should also have some property that was seized for us, maybe something there would suffice for housing?

We should also study orcish law for a loophole in the duels I thought we might be able to find.  If the duel for the mercenary captain is won, it does not necessarily prove his innocence.  What it proves is he worked alone, which may be the basis of guilt by association.  I do not know if this would work, but it would mean sparing the other mercenaries.  Then we commute his sentence to a fine and jail time or something.

We have that library and our scholarship, we might be able to out orcish law them.

For Greent, we should definitely talk with him and point out the obvious.  Once Chastity has an heir with the prince her life is forfeit and now she has no chance of keeping the duchess title if we win.  This action was never going to be part of her plan, she was already set up to be heir with our oldest son disinherited and everyone else not interested.  If he wants to save Chastity his only choice is to oppose the prince and gather evidence that she was a victim.  We can then exile her to Bleaksoil and task her with recovering one of the other ancient seats of Bonedust power which she can then rule.

We need to send a simple message to the king through our family.  Stay out of the conflict and it will end in the duchy, we can all go back to fighting goblins and being wealthy.  We do not want to have to call on all our assets, but we will if pressed.  At least give the king the option to not participate.  Include a part about Dean and Fortune needing partners.

VoidSlayer

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #307 on: April 26, 2016, 12:39:39 pm »

Also, as to grooming a temporary replacement while we "vacation", we should ready Joy to take over with her husbands advise.  Then we ready Dean to take over the dark magic circle with the advise of the wights.

Also we can take Fortune with us to Titan Rock.

Edit:  Also no Balrog, if we are rigging the fight for the orcs we might as well use a strong normal guy.  Maybe the holy caster who was going to train Joy, if they think we are going to send some kind of powerful evil monster and we show up with a Paladin they will be mismatched.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 12:47:48 pm by VoidSlayer »
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Tomcost

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #308 on: April 26, 2016, 01:03:50 pm »

Nah, I would prefer to remain as an undead on this side, demonic places are rare and we are not even a manifestation yet.
So we train to become one! Come on, an opportunity like this doens't present itself too often. We can even train under the half-drow's teacher to become soul cleaners. It's a long-time investment, though. It is not something that we will do right away. We will remain here until we have organized most things, then ascend.

Quote
We should keep the demon soul for now, have Dean start his manifestation and then present him the powerful demonic soul as something to absorb later.  We can kick him up to super powerful half-demon right away, maybe an equal to our great grandfather in time.

I have plans for Dean and the Bonedust family. How about this:

-Our uncle ascends under Trance.
-Dean becomes manifestation and becomes the head of House Bonedust on earth
-We ascend under Tiv and still control him on earth.


Quote
With that history we should REALLY tell Tiv about the half-drow girl.  The idea of passing off some extra soul cleaning work to her sounds even better then before.  She can temp when she has time, get training for now, payment later and has a source of souls that are not murdered in front of her.

Maybe just for low-value stuff. Tiv would be losing resources is she fails to clean something. We should test her.

Quote
For the vault negotiations, how about we give him the weapon and armor, AFTER they have been studied, and offer him the first divine soul enchanted weapon, in the form of a new scythe, we craft if we can use the knowledge to make more powerful weapons.  If we find we can not craft such a thing we then pay say 5000 in silver and a Bloodsharing.  We should also have some property that was seized for us, maybe something there would suffice for housing?

Oh, right, the vault thing.

He is requesting two different things:
On one side, he requests payment for opening his vault.
On the other, he requests payment for entering his territory.

For the first part, he wants something of the vault. We don't even know what is in there, or if we will be able to properly open it. Imagine if our grandmother's soul is in there. I'd rather keep her. So I propose for this part a monetary compensation.

For the second one, there are options. I like either bloodsharing via Dean (he is needing a child or something), or accepting those two in those positions. Of course, as those positions are irrelevant to us, we can just relegate them to secondary roles.

Quote
If the duel for the mercenary captain is won, it does not necessarily prove his innocence.  What it proves is he worked alone, which may be the basis of guilt by association.  I do not know if this would work, but it would mean sparing the other mercenaries.  Then we commute his sentence to a fine and jail time or something.

...Wut?

If they win the duel, all get saved. That's why those two duels decide the fate of 41 people, not two. There is no need for anything else, if we agree to lose the mercenary duel on purpose and kill Crank in one shot.

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For Greent, we should definitely talk with him and point out the obvious.  Once Chastity has an heir with the prince her life is forfeit and now she has no chance of keeping the duchess title if we win.  This action was never going to be part of her plan, she was already set up to be heir with our oldest son disinherited and everyone else not interested.  If he wants to save Chastity his only choice is to oppose the prince and gather evidence that she was a victim.  We can then exile her to Bleaksoil and task her with recovering one of the other ancient seats of Bonedust power which she can then rule.

Emotions are involved. Reason becomes irrelevant. We can't tell him "hey, we are going to let our daughter live in exile" because he will try to murder us on the spot out of rage.

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We need to send a simple message to the king through our family.  Stay out of the conflict and it will end in the duchy, we can all go back to fighting goblins and being wealthy.  We do not want to have to call on all our assets, but we will if pressed.  At least give the king the option to not participate.  Include a part about Dean and Fortune needing partners.

Not now. If this goes wrong, we would have 50k troops on our ass sooner than what you would expect. Let's consolidate power, get more troops, those badass cannons, and then negotiate. We can't go threatening the King while the orders to make the cannons have not been sent yet.

Also, as to grooming a temporary replacement while we "vacation", we should ready Joy to take over with her husbands advise.  Then we ready Dean to take over the dark magic circle with the advise of the wights.

I approve the Dean part, but I'd rather leave Redding in charge. He has a better head for these things than Joy (who is going to get herself killed if someone doens't take care of her)

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Also we can take Fortune with us to Titan Rock.

Syzzik won't like it. But I'm indifferent.

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Edit:  Also no Balrog, if we are rigging the fight for the orcs we might as well use a strong normal guy.  Maybe the holy caster who was going to train Joy, if they think we are going to send some kind of powerful evil monster and we show up with a Paladin they will be mismatched.

The balrog is to show force, and gain the respect of Clan Ivy. We are rigging just one fight, to save the mercenaries and get Crank out of the picture. With the other one, we will fight as hard as we can. And that means that great-great grandaddy is going to kick some mortal ass.

Also if they think that we are going to send a demon, they will send an inquisitor. Inquisitors are designed to beat divine casters like the Valkirie.

Also, it is Redding who decides who fights (and his son).

Final note: Our balrog used to be an inquisitor while mortal and would only be bested by the High Inquisitor himself (or one of his guards). And the best inquisitor is going to be sent to fight Shaman Crank and save the mercenaries, not the druids. This means that we win the second fight no matter what happens.

VoidSlayer

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #309 on: April 26, 2016, 01:17:33 pm »

But the Balrog is super expensive soul wise for a single fight and is publicly using a powerful demon.

I still think looking into the specifics of the orcish laws would be a good idea to see if there is a loophole.  If we can find another way to outmaneuver but in the end keep our word we can seem both smart and forgiving.  Hell it can look like we always planned on sparing him the whole time to outsiders.

My suggestion for the soul cleaning was to start on the simplest type, taking a soul apart into zombie materials.

Also I was not thinking undead like overseeing the family vaults and more like Eternal Mummy Queen of all human lands.

Tomcost

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #310 on: April 26, 2016, 01:42:39 pm »

But the Balrog is super expensive soul wise for a single fight and is publicly using a powerful demon.
I understand the first concern, and so I suggested looking for a short and less expensive contract. As for the second one, do we fear the inquisition? We have a really important political contact in there to delay or prevent them from coming. Otherwise, everybody knows we are the Dark Lady of demons and undead around here.

Besides, we are going to gain Clan Ivy's respect, which is going to be important after they lose their local leader. The authority gained can prevent the orcs from attacking the mercenaries.

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I still think looking into the specifics of the orcish laws would be a good idea to see if there is a loophole.  If we can find another way to outmaneuver but in the end keep our word we can seem both smart and forgiving.  Hell it can look like we always planned on sparing him the whole time to outsiders.

And our word is? We said that we don't want Wikes dead, and we are doing things to save him. Loophole like what? We don't have much time until Friday. I don't know if I want to spend that time with my nose buried in a book looking for a way to save them while we already have one that will net us such a good element like Crank's soul.

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My suggestion for the soul cleaning was to start on the simplest type, taking a soul apart into zombie materials.

Hmm, how about we consult this with father first? He could talk Tiv into agreeing if necessary.

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Also I was not thinking undead like overseeing the family vaults and more like Eternal Mummy Queen of all human lands.
I still like demon businesswoman more than that. Also, I'm seeing it more for the endgame, not the short or middle term. It's not like we intend to die soon.

escaped lurker

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #311 on: April 26, 2016, 02:50:02 pm »

Quote from: Voidslayer
For Greent, we should definitely talk with him and point out the obvious.  Once Chastity has an heir with the prince her life is forfeit and now she has no chance of keeping the duchess title if we win.  This action was never going to be part of her plan, she was already set up to be heir with our oldest son disinherited and everyone else not interested.  If he wants to save Chastity his only choice is to oppose the prince and gather evidence that she was a victim.  We can then exile her to Bleaksoil and task her with recovering one of the other ancient seats of Bonedust power which she can then rule.

I guess talking about this with Redding once he is sober, and then breaching this talk together with him, sounds a bit better than immediately talking with his son. Especially, because we actually shouldn't know this - if we are together with his father, Greent will be far less wary, and much more receptive about our opinion on the matter. Or, well, the facts, I guess.


About the Soul, if we are going that route, I would actually give it to Dean, and A-OK his transformation
With our lineage, we are going to become an undead litch for the family vault at the very least, safe our soul being imprisoned or destroyed.
Investing this mighty soul into our son, who could use this power far more readily than ourself, and already is considered to become the next head of magic of the family, would make things easier for us on multiple levels. It would almost guarantee his ascension, while at the same time providing about as much of an immediate boost to our forces as should be possible.
Will we miss out in the long turn? Maybe - but giving such a chance to our son, isn't something that we should grieve about.


About those pesky Half-Moon-Moon's
The move to have Dean father a bastard, sounds like a no-loss thing at first. Still, getting a new clan as kin, is not only a boon - but also a responsibility. One, that we would have to pander to.
We currently have only three main factions in town, that we have to pander to, and things are already moving at paces, and into places, that are out of our control. Getting new kin, which might mess with this already fragile balance, isn't really worth a few - possibly mighty - baubles from some old vault.
I'd rather have Moon-Moon's children fill out some positions as figureheads, or curbstomp him for his overall insolence. Provided we would not loose face with the other orcs for doing this, going to war skirmish with them, is actually an option we might want to consider more earnestly.


"No" to the balrog summoning
We already have clan Ivy as kin, and play an important part in their plans. We don't actually need their respect, as we have better.
If we summon our ancestor, this will send a signal to the crown, that we might not want to mess around. This might give them more time to brace themselves against the coming storm. I'd rather keep our true intentions hush-hush for a bit longer, at least until those cannons are going into production, or are out shipping. Better yet, with us visiting there, we might even handle out some deals to hush it up longer. Which translates into less time for the crown to prepare against our several trump-cards in-the-making. (As if our lover-to-be would actually plan on having "only" a romantic honeymoon. I'd wager he already has plans on how to use ourself to our advantage up there.)


Quote from: IronyOwl
Going through it all in one-ish swoop, what's your impression of the kind of person our noble Duchess is? I've been getting it as it comes, so I'm not sure I have an overly coherent image of her.
Well, that one, is a bit difficult to answer. The Duchess is not fazed much by anything, safe her children, and things going south. The rest of the time, she is about as much of a manipulative schemer and monster, as these forums allow. Torture, soul-stealing, assasination, high-treason, demons, undead, demonic undead as ancestors, anything without as much as a flinch or second thought. Even going through all of that in a short time, it is one confusing mess that we find ourselves in, as we try to jumpstart a rebellion against - by now - the crown.

The most emotion that we have displayed, at multiple times, are the feelings for our children. Which is coherent with our backstory, and many of our actions. (Also one of the reasons why I propose to just give the soul to Dean.)
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Tomcost

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #312 on: April 26, 2016, 03:41:13 pm »

Quote from: Voidslayer
For Greent, we should definitely talk with him and point out the obvious.  Once Chastity has an heir with the prince her life is forfeit and now she has no chance of keeping the duchess title if we win.  This action was never going to be part of her plan, she was already set up to be heir with our oldest son disinherited and everyone else not interested.  If he wants to save Chastity his only choice is to oppose the prince and gather evidence that she was a victim.  We can then exile her to Bleaksoil and task her with recovering one of the other ancient seats of Bonedust power which she can then rule.

I guess talking about this with Redding once he is sober, and then breaching this talk together with him, sounds a bit better than immediately talking with his son. Especially, because we actually shouldn't know this - if we are together with his father, Greent will be far less wary, and much more receptive about our opinion on the matter. Or, well, the facts, I guess.

I would put a perception hex in our favor there, just to be on the safe side.


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About the Soul, if we are going that route, I would actually give it to Dean, and A-OK his transformation
With our lineage, we are going to become an undead litch for the family vault at the very least, safe our soul being imprisoned or destroyed.
Investing this mighty soul into our son, who could use this power far more readily than ourself, and already is considered to become the next head of magic of the family, would make things easier for us on multiple levels. It would almost guarantee his ascension, while at the same time providing about as much of an immediate boost to our forces as should be possible.
Will we miss out in the long turn? Maybe - but giving such a chance to our son, isn't something that we should grieve about.

I'm not against this, but I have to quote something:

-Uncle Truman reminds everybody that Tivavarav is unlikely to have the resources to protect another ascended Bonedust for several generations, and that protection and employment under Trance to establish the kinship might be the safest way for Dean or himself to eventually ascend.

The thing is that I don't know if Dean would be able to use that soul right off the bat, as consuming souls would seem to require him to become a full demon, not a manifestation. And even then, it doesn't guarantee that he would be able to ascend safely, as it is Tiv who decides that, based on how his business is going.

That's why I'd rather give it to Tiv and bargain for a future position for someone as a demon. We could even send Dean to learn how to clean souls so that he proves useful for the business. My idea is that Dean should lead the family some time after Uncle Truman, enough to get someone to pass power to, and then ascend.

I'm planning on something like this:
-Uncle Truman ascends under Trance.
-Dean becomes manifestation and leads the family enough time to get someone to take his place.
-He then ascends.

But, due to the opportunity cost, we should either way send the soul to Tiv so that he expands his bussiness (think of souls as money. If you are not using it, you should get an interest from it. Otherwise, it is time wasted).

But, to prevent discussion without facts (because I'm talking facts taken out of thin air, because I have no idea how the whole soul-devouring works), I will ask the GM some questions:


Questions for the GM:
What does becoming a manifestation entail? Would Dean be able to reproduce normally? Would he be able to be around in public?
Can a soul be eaten by a manifestation? Would that be a good use of the resource?



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About those pesky Half-Moon-Moon's
The move to have Dean father a bastard, sounds like a no-loss thing at first. Still, getting a new clan as kin, is not only a boon - but also a responsibility. One, that we would have to pander to.
We currently have only three main factions in town, that we have to pander to, and things are already moving at paces, and into places, that are out of our control. Getting new kin, which might mess with this already fragile balance, isn't really worth a few - possibly mighty - baubles from some old vault.
I'd rather have Moon-Moon's children fill out some positions as figureheads, or curbstomp him for his overall insolence. Provided we would not loose face with the other orcs for doing this, going to war skirmish with them, is actually an option we might want to consider more earnestly.

I doubt that the small clan will get in trouble with bigger clans (unless they get too confident in us helping them if they mess up). But I'd rather take the option to get more pepole helping us.


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"No" to the balrog summoning

Any other candidates for the fight? We have to make sure to win that other one. Unless we rig it with Redding, some things we choose may be heavily countered by what they choose. So, who? The wight may get banished by an inquisitor, and most physical troops could get destroyed by magic users. Unless we get somebody good with both.

Otherwise, Tonsil the veteran Scourge seems like a good pick. Maybe.

IronyOwl

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #313 on: April 26, 2016, 05:43:52 pm »

Oh wow.


Duel:
I'd rather just talk to Crank. His soul is incredibly valuable, yes, but he's incredibly valuable to us alive, too; remember, he managed to partially incapacitate us by hugging us. That kind of divine magic brought to bear directly could be absolutely devastating, and probably much more so much sooner than feeding him to Dean eventually.

Also, there's some nonzero chance the voices will warn him or something. Plus murdering your allies so you can eat their souls sets a bad precedent, and Rash's motivation for this is impatience. When was the last time you heard of somebody murdering their boss to unleash the gates of hell faster working out for them? :P

If that doesn't work, I agree that the Balrog is excessive and expensive. We can negotiate with the mercs if we want to trade fights, and we have no shortage of impressive local fighters. Tonsil's the obvious one, yeah.

I agree with taking execution off the table with the merc. It costs us nothing, because the whole point of the trial is to avoid having Wikes killed while also avoiding embarrassing us or Clan Ivy.

I do think it's worth looking up Orcish Law on the matter if we can't get it to trial. If we can it doesn't really matter, but if not there could be some obscure loophole or confluence of circumstances that give us more options. I think it's worth putting in a day or two researching for the chance.


Vault:
I suppose we can let him have a weapon and armor of his choice, if any, but I also really like the idea of counteroffering with custom-enchanting him a proper symbol of office. We have a Valkyrie and Dwarven Enchanter, after all, and the means to acquire souls relatively easily. Presumably such a craft would be less impressive than what's in the vaults (again, if there's any weapons or armor at all), but he might be willing to sacrifice raw power for control.

For the trespassing thing... forcing Dean to bang an Orcess costs us nothing other than potentially cheesing off Dean. Appointing an orc-goblin steward and elementalist-potioner court mage costs us less than nothing; we could sort of use a steward anyway, court mage doesn't do anything, and we're looking for more potioncrafters. I say we agree to that one, unless we want to keep those positions open to bribe/honor/recruit somebody else.


Chasity and Greent:
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck.

Quote from: Tomcost
By the way, my personal posture in this whole Chastity bussiness is as follows:

Chastity is a clever and power hungry little bitch who was too young to properly know what she was getting into, and was outplayed by people who did. She tried to gain power, and now she has none, because the actual power lies in Denzel. We shouldn't trust her, but she shouldn't be a great problem either.
She played with Greent's emotions into making her one of her goons. We will have to heavily work with curses and deception to manipulate him into properly follwing us. Until we can do it, we should play on his side, so that he plays in ours.
I'm not quite so harsh on her or quick to jump to hexes, but this is more or less my take on it. It's possible she got outmaneuvered by prophecy or Rubicon acted like an idiot when she assumed he'd play it cool, but the whole "things got out of hand" part seems likely. As does the idea that we probably don't want to turn our back on her, but she's not really a major player here.

It's a little hard to say how Greent factors into all of this, obviously. "Sure, my waifu is a traitorous bitch to everyone ELSE, but she REALLY loves ME!" is what literally every unwitting pawn says about their obviously evil mistress. I do like the idea of marrying the two off and exiling them to the goblin front or something when this is over, but I agree it's probably not a great negotiation tactic.

As for what to do NOW... we need to convince him that Chasity is in trouble and he should side with us until she's safe. We could try inventing rumors or the like, but he's schemey enough to probably be wary of those. We could try offering him Chasity's hand, or let slip that if she survives we'll probably marry her off to whichever of our minions is most useful and wants kinship with us badly enough to put up with her, but in either case that only works if he thinks her current position is bad.


Misc:
I like talking to Tiv, Syzzik, and Mable) to see if she might have a future as a professional soul cleaner for us.

Redding and to a lesser extent Joy should make pretty good replacements for us if we need to go somewhere. Other than the fact that Glen thinks Redding doesn't have a head for larger troop movements, and also hates him passionately. Do we know why, incidentally?

Speaking of which, I'd like to attend Chieftess Ivy's fancy party sometime soon. We need to get all THIS resolved first, and probably square away a few things besides, but we should still have time to vacation for a week or two before the other clans arrive, and it'd be good to know at least one insane prophecy concerning the obliteration of the world.
Spoiler: Vacation Planning (click to show/hide)
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Tomcost

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #314 on: April 26, 2016, 06:23:21 pm »

Duel:
His soul is incredibly valuable, yes, but he's incredibly valuable to us alive,

He is an irrational and unpredictable. He is more of a force of nature than an ally. I'd rather harvest the resource and use it for whatever we want, rather than risking some kind of crazy religious thing coming form him.

Or maybe I'm just a control freak. That's a possibility too.

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Also, there's some nonzero chance the voices will warn him or something.
I don't know if it works like that. But I don't know anything, so my opinion holds no value here.


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Plus murdering your allies so you can eat their souls sets a bad precedent
Not if only Rash knows that it was planned.

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and Rash's motivation for this is impatience. When was the last time you heard of somebody murdering their boss to unleash the gates of hell faster working out for them? :P

If your argument is that Rash is as likely to murder us, then I agree with the argument. Solved as long as we work the way they want us to work.

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Vault:
I suppose we can let him have a weapon and armor of his choice, if any, but I also really like the idea of counteroffering with custom-enchanting him a proper symbol of office. We have a Valkyrie and Dwarven Enchanter, after all, and the means to acquire souls relatively easily. Presumably such a craft would be less impressive than what's in the vaults (again, if there's any weapons or armor at all), but he might be willing to sacrifice raw power for control.

I don't like to gamble on integer numbers about something we do not have any idea about, so I prefer the custom enchant. We don't even know if there is armor or weapons there. What if there is only one? We would be working for nothing.

I think that we all agree that filling those court positions is the better idea.

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As for what to do NOW... we need to convince him that Chasity is in trouble and he should side with us until she's safe. We could try inventing rumors or the like, but he's schemey enough to probably be wary of those. We could try offering him Chasity's hand, or let slip that if she survives we'll probably marry her off to whichever of our minions is most useful and wants kinship with us badly enough to put up with her, but in either case that only works if he thinks her current position is bad.

I like the idea, but we have to come with a better argument for talking to him. We supposedly don't know all this "Ima goin' to save mai waifu" thing he got himself into, and it may seem a litte direct to ask him so rashly about all that.

How about we come to him asking if he has any news regarding Chastity? As they are friends, he should know. And we could seem worried about that.

But we should wait until the tensions have gone away.

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I like talking to Tiv, Syzzik, and Mable) to see if she might have a future as a professional soul cleaner for us.

Yeah, but I'd consult it first with father. He was the human who learned to clean souls after all.

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hates him passionately. Do we know why, incidentally?

Married the daughter of his husbando. Some kind of non-blood-related inversed Oedipus Complex fuckery?

Quote from: IronyOwl
Vacation plans

I vote Joy, Dean (I have a theory inn which he may get to bang Chieftess Ivy for that "biological fact" thing), Mason, Fortune, Foot (why not?) and Rugath, as a personal guard because why not.

I would leave Redding (to keep him away from the whole demonic madness his wife got herself into), and Wednesday (to snoop on Redding while we are away.)
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