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FUCK YES LET'S LEAVE GET HYPE YEY

Casual yes, let's leave and get independence done with

Meh, probably just scribble all over my vote ballot to spite tryhards

Casual no, let's remain and get integration done with

FUCK NO LET'S REMAIN GET CALM YEY

[Neonivek]

Where's all the John Oliver hate coming from recently? Other than being a nerdier and shrill-er version of John Stewart, and that one thing with buying back people's debts and maybe not crediting the original inventors of the idea.

If you check the video... Basically racism... Like outright... Even check the comments. (as in racists hate him)

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Where's all the John Oliver hate coming from recently? Other than being a nerdier and shrill-er version of John Stewart, and that one thing with buying back people's debts and maybe not crediting the original inventors of the idea.

Mostly his continuous downplaying of the refugee crisis as anything other than Evil European Racists trying to hurt innocent people. Even more so since he seems to portray the situation as Europe being obligated to take on as many refugees as they can, when he himself no longer lives in Europe. Also, that his shilling is so very specific, and I say that as the targeted demographic and political persuasion.

On a less political front, Last Week Tonight is just kind of purely formulaic, and after a while gets to the "punchlines" being "you're supposed to laugh now" signs. I think it's gotten a bit better since the horrid low point of mid-second season, but I also stopped watching it, so maybe not.

[mainiac]

It's the job of liberals to make the arguments of conservatives.  Any liberal who doesn't do that is a partisan hack.

Note that the reverse does not apply.

[Neonivek]

Mostly his continuous downplaying of the refugee crisis as anything other than Evil European Racists trying to hurt innocent people.

In all fairness the counter arguments I see against him was "MUSLIMS ARE EVIL!"

Rather than some nuanced argument about how these countries cannot support this number of refuges. With John Oliver actually shutting down the BS made up excuses for not accepting refuges.

At LEAST he isn't making up any information.

[Baffler]

It's the job of liberals to make the arguments of conservatives.  Any liberal who doesn't do that is a partisan hack.

Note that the reverse does not apply.

All of the people in this thread and elsewhere saying that the status quo should reign except with a larger majority than 51% in favor of change because they're salty about the result of the referendum demonstrate this principle in action.

[mainiac]

I dont follow.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It's the job of liberals to make the arguments of conservatives.  Any liberal who doesn't do that is a partisan hack.

Note that the reverse does not apply.

Easy there chief, I'm not your RedKing to RedKing's maniac. All I'm saying is that Last Week Tonight's writing tightbeam is focused exclusively on 18-25 year old American leftists. Wrong? I don't know. Annoyingly transparent? Oh yeah.

In all fairness the counter arguments I see against him was "MUSLIMS ARE EVIL!"

Rather than some nuanced argument about how these countries cannot support this number of refuges. With John Oliver actually shutting down the BS made up excuses for not accepting refuges.

At LEAST he isn't making up any information.

It can be taken as a lie of omission. Muslims don't need to be evil for there to have been all the incidences of violence, sexual assault, and subsequent well-intentioned coverups by local politicians who support taking refugees.

Is taking refugees overall a good or bad idea? Does Europe have any moral obligation to take in refugees at all? Does that come with or preclude also taking direct action in the "Syrian" Civil War (because Syria barely exists now, and it's spilled far out)?

I don't know, and I'm not convinced anybody else really knows either. It seems like most people in this are following script; ie. right-wing groups say refugees are all rapists and ISIS plants so we need to keep them out, left-wing groups say refugees are all enlightened grateful victims of ISIS and will shore up Europe's economy. What else can the public really do in such an absence of clear information but follow the typical divisions?

[Neonivek]

http://www.beaconsfieldprimary.org.uk/docs/Refugee_Discussion_by_Mahisa.pdf

Here we go!

Refuges are Pennyless dirty criminals

Yes that is all the information I could find... It is surprisingly hard to find ANYTHING about why people shouldn't be accepting refuges.

left-wing groups say refugees are all enlightened grateful victims of ISIS and will shore up Europe's economy.

Actually no. The left just says that they are ultimately the victims in all of this and shouldn't be treated as criminals because they are part of a "unwanted" sector of the world.

They make no claim that they are enlightened and are fighting a losing battle because the Refuges are human. While yes the Right HAS made claims that they are rapists and criminals before.

[redwallzyl]

It's the job of liberals to make the arguments of conservatives.  Any liberal who doesn't do that is a partisan hack.

Note that the reverse does not apply.

All of the people in this thread and elsewhere saying that the status quo should reign except with a larger majority than 51% in favor of change because they're salty about the result of the referendum demonstrate this principle in action.

except their was only 70ish percent turnout and both sides but especially the leavers outright lied about what a brexit would lead to and many people stupidly made protest votes and such. also two of the kingdoms in the united kingdom voted strongly in favor of staying.

[scriver]

It's the job of liberals to make the arguments of conservatives.  Any liberal who doesn't do that is a partisan hack.

Note that the reverse does not apply.

My English fails me. What is meaning?

[Baffler]

I dont follow.

I wasn't really making a point. Just playing on the meanings of liberal and conservative as "generally in favor of change" and "generally in favor of the status quo," juxtaposing those definitions with the people (who would likely describe themselves as liberal) saying a simple majority isn't enough, and relating it back to your post as "proof."

except their was only 70ish percent turnout and both sides but especially the leavers outright lied about what a brexit would lead to and many people stupidly made protest votes and such. also two of the kingdoms in the united kingdom voted strongly in favor of staying.

If some fucktard voted leave to "make a statement", but wanted to remain, they have only themselves to blame when the result of the election reflects that.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

left-wing groups say refugees are all enlightened grateful victims of ISIS and will shore up Europe's economy.

Actually no. The left just says that they are ultimately the victims in all of this and shouldn't be treated as criminals because they are part of a "unwanted" sector of the world.

They make no claim that they are enlightened... While yes the Right HAS made claims that they are rapists and criminals before.

I don't think that's quite true. They might not outright claim that refugees are all humanist universalists in the Western style, but refusing to address the very obvious conflict that comes from originating in cultures where homosexuality is a severe crime, gender roles are beyond mandatory, and religious piety is way, way more important (and of a different religion to boot) is just about the same thing. Acting like it is the case instead of stating it.

[mainiac]

All I'm saying is that Last Week Tonight's writing tightbeam is focused exclusively on 18-25 year old American leftists. Wrong?

How was one supposed to parse that from this?

Mostly his continuous downplaying of the refugee crisis as anything other than Evil European Racists trying to hurt innocent people.

But also, I was just saying why people hate him.  I dont even think you are among the haters seeing as you just said you had watched him.

I wasn't really making a point.

I mean I literally did not parse your words.

[nenjin]

On a less political front, Last Week Tonight is just kind of purely formulaic, and after a while gets to the "punchlines" being "you're supposed to laugh now" signs. I think it's gotten a bit better since the horrid low point of mid-second season, but I also stopped watching it, so maybe not.

Easy there chief, I'm not your RedKing to RedKing's maniac. All I'm saying is that Last Week Tonight's writing tightbeam is focused exclusively on 18-25 year old American leftists. Wrong? I don't know. Annoyingly transparent? Oh yeah.

I mean...it's the exact same formula as the Daily Show, just with more swearing. It's what made TDS a success with that exact demographic. I take no stance on whether you should or should not dislike that. But it's not new.

What else can the public really do in such an absence of clear information but follow the typical divisions?

Find the middle ground instead of just feeding the machine on either side? That two ideas are not mutually exclusive: Europe has a moral obligation to help, and doing so comes with additional costs, risk and challenges? That some refugees are "good elements" that will ultimately help the European economy, and some are "bad elements" that will commit crime.

Basically admitting real life is real and getting on with legislation to address real life instead of arguing for or supporting binary interpretations of complex situations involving actual people. The same could be said for both sides. And back to my original question, I feel like JO does the token sober admission to both sides of the argument, just like TDS did. It's still a lead up to his actual opinion and the punchline but I don't think he's, like, a maximum shill or anything.

...the thread, she does move fast.

[Orange Wizard]

Basically admitting real life is real and getting on with legislation to address real life instead of arguing for or supporting binary interpretations of complex situations involving actual people.

I often fantasise about this