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Yes.

Yes, if... (please post what here)

No. I don't want the possibility to lose weapons for any reason other than MAGMA (or other reasons)!

[Admiral Obvious]

I was just thinking about this while playing around in adventure mode.

I was playing as said adventurer, and went to one of my fortresses that happened to have candy. I went and ordered my weapon smiths to create me a few candy swords in fort mode. Forbid one of them, the highest quality one (masterwork I think), and retired the fort.

I then went to my fort as a dwarven hearthperson, and "borrowed" the sword from the fort, and proceed to randomly go out and kill everything that got in my way, starting with bandit camps, and also a necro tower.

Through playing through, leveling up sword skills, and parrying A LOT, it got me to think. This is the hardest, sharpest, and lightest sword, likely in the known universe. Why cant it pierce shields, or cut wooden weapons in half when parrying?

Why can't this be done? I realize that the game is still being developed, and will for years to come, but why is it that only clothing is something that experiences wear? I'd kind of like to see some sort of addition to combat systems that allow for destruction of equipment, instead of solely destruction of the thing holding said equipment.

For example. Say I've got a platinum (mood) or silver war hammer, and try to smash some elf with a wooden shield, and get the shot blocked. Should the shield not crack, or even maybe explode under the force?

A different example. Cutting through armor essentially does nothing to the state of the armor, even though there probably are large holes in reality within the armor as a result. Wouldn't it be interesting to see armor get shattered, or cracked by low contact area, high power weapons? Maybe the weapon itself could break against superior armor? What about denting via large contact area, blunt weapons?

Last example. What about edged weapons? Slashing at Steel armor with a Copper sword will either do one of two things. Get through the armor, or damage the sword, like cracking, bending, blunting, or possibly even completely breaking the sword.

Wouldn't it be interesting to see material qualities have more of an effect on combat? Does anyone have a mod for this? Are there any ideas you'd like to see in this regard?

My Idea

I was thinking weapons could potentially be divided into "limbs" like your average living thing, and your weapons could experience wear and tear, honestly identical to a living thing, except that your sword can't "die", but instead lose abilities, based on damage taken. Essentially, when something happens, apply a mutator to the weapon.

For example, if the sword is cut in half, it's edged contact area would be halved, it's piercing contact area would be made much higher, and the weapon would be made lighter.

If a sword is dented or chipped, it would lose edged contact sharpness.

If a weapon is cut to the hilt, you will only be able to pommel things with your weapon.

A Mace\Maul can be chipped, reducing the mass of the weapon, and making what edged contact area wider, but also blunter (which may actually make the weapon better in some cases).

Not sure what to think of hammers besides the loss of the head.

Whips/Flails can have their "heads" cut off, essentially making the weapon useless. Possibly the weapon would get an even finer contact edge as a result, maybe it could be blunter, but the contact area would be reduced (or increased, depends on what a whip in this game actually is).

Spears would essentially become sticks if they lose their sharpened head, effectively making a stab a pommel strike.

Damaged armor/shields can lose coverage while damaged, exposing the user to further "issues".

All of these things can be repaired depending on damage taken, at an appropriate forge, because why not?

[GoblinCookie]

A good idea and almost certainly planned in the future.  However the main thing that gets in the way of this is the fact that no production happens outside of fortress mode once world generation is concluded.  Everything is made by magic according to very specific parameters, fixed uniforms get conjured into existence when need for soldiers, food and drink replenishes every time the site reloads up to the fixed values but that is it.

You propose that we create a special repair script that repairs damaged player items, the destruction of items not being on the cards (with the npc items being auto fixed on reload?), this is a good idea if we are taking the Status Quo of fixed site inventories/uniforms as the final article.  Since it is not the final article the question is more one of efficiency, should the devs create a repair script now which takes time out to repair items with a mind to eventually expanding the system to post-gen production in general OR should they implement it as part of the the release that adds the production and destruction of items in general outside of fortress mode?

Only the devs can really know the answer as to which of these is most efficient.

[mirrizin]

Another observation is that some of the prized metals for blunt weapons, such as silver, while very dense, are also very malleable.

I noticed for instance that sterling silver, which doesn't do much in-game, is used IRL because pure silver is too soft for many practical applications.

[Admiral Obvious]

Some further thought on this idea makes me think that weapon quality could have a large tie in to the type of damage taken to the weapon. A superior Copper sword versus a regular Copper sword, when parried would make the standard copper sword have a higher chance to get chipped than the superior variant.

As for post world generation, I was not aware that all NPC production simply stopped. (Makes me want to go full Kobold, steal everyone's weapons and melt them all.) If this would be implemented, I think it would be the best idea to include it with the post world gen item creation update that will likely come.

Weapon statuses could likely be tracked through legends mode, if the weapon was ever used in a combat situation, and is still owned for during world gen situations.

I would like to see some iteration of weapon/armor damage/repairs to be tried at least in Fort mode. Maybe there could be some type of strange mood triggered if UristMcLedgend has his attached to sword break in combat, leading to A possibly "legendary" repaired (personalized) sword.

As for silver weapons, they would probably be more susceptible to damage than most.

[pikachu17]

yes they should take damage. I'd also like it if could actually aim for armor and weapons(and stuff like waterskins and backpacks) so I can choose to destroy my opponents weapon. you shouldn't be able to damage armor underneath other armor without damaging the top armor, for instance you'd have to damage the +iron breastplate+ before damaging the copper mail shirt underneath it

[Admiral Obvious]

Here's an example I thought about while looking at the RAW's for everything. In this example, an elf attacks a steel clad dwarf with a wooden spear.

Code: [Select]

The Elf 1 attacks the Dwarf 1 with their wooden spear, but the attack glances away against the +steel breastplate+!
The spear was blunted performing the attack!
(In this case, the penetration area would be increased, and edge size in this particular case would be slightly increased.)
Another example, where a sword strike is parried by a higher quality sword.

Code: [Select]

The Human 1 attacks the Dwarf 1 with their Copper Longsword, but the attack is deftly parried!
The Longsword was split at the middle during the defense!
(In this case, cut weapon size in half, cut slashing edged contact area in half, and add 150% to edge size of the sword stabbing variable, and add 100% to the contact area variable)

[Atomisk]

The only reason I vote no is because I play primarily adventure mode. seeing the new updates on the way, This is actually a great idea, so long as i can replace my broken shite!

[GoblinCookie]

Some further thought on this idea makes me think that weapon quality could have a large tie in to the type of damage taken to the weapon. A superior Copper sword versus a regular Copper sword, when parried would make the standard copper sword have a higher chance to get chipped than the superior variant.

As for post world generation, I was not aware that all NPC production simply stopped. (Makes me want to go full Kobold, steal everyone's weapons and melt them all.) If this would be implemented, I think it would be the best idea to include it with the post world gen item creation update that will likely come.

Weapon statuses could likely be tracked through legends mode, if the weapon was ever used in a combat situation, and is still owned for during world gen situations.

All NPC production stops, however there are scripts in play that create new items in particular contexts or replace missing items up to the level they were at the end of generation.  For instance, stealing the weapons from every site in the game would accomplish nothing except deprive adventurers of future weaponry as npcs do not use the weaponry that is in the sites. Instead all civilizations have scripted uniforms and new soldiers are equipped out of nowhere out of an 'invisible armoury', basically new weapons/armour are conjured out up according to a civ-unique template.  This could be considered production depending upon how you look at it. 

The curious thing is that the weaponry and the armour come from different lists.  The armour is dealt with as an extension of the clothing script, basically they wear the clothing of their 'original' civilization.  Weapons on the other hand are handed out according to the civilization they actually serve, meaning that when I made different sized weapon variants for the different civs foreign-origin soldiers still ended up with the wrong size weapons.

There is an annoying bug in the game as a direct result of this.  The available soldier types are decided according to the weapons available to original civ but weaponry according to the present civ, so if the foreign soldier is given a hammerdwarf profession but the civilization they are now working for has no hammers they will end up unarmed.  As a result of this it is advisable to make sure that all civilizations have one weapon for each skill type in the game.

I would like to see some iteration of weapon/armor damage/repairs to be tried at least in Fort mode. Maybe there could be some type of strange mood triggered if UristMcLedgend has his attached to sword break in combat, leading to A possibly "legendary" repaired (personalized) sword.

As for silver weapons, they would probably be more susceptible to damage than most.

It should be very difficult to actually destroy a sword outright in one go.  Instead depending upon the difference in the strength of the materials the sword would take an amount damage every time it hits.  This should be represented by a loss of quality (the present clothing system has only two levels) in the item, with levels below 0 also being added in.  Some of that quality would be regained when the item is repaired, but never 100% and the amount of quality regained should depend upon the skill of the dwarf doing the repairing.

yes they should take damage. I'd also like it if could actually aim for armor and weapons(and stuff like waterskins and backpacks) so I can choose to destroy my opponents weapon. you shouldn't be able to damage armor underneath other armor without damaging the top armor, for instance you'd have to damage the +iron breastplate+ before damaging the copper mail shirt underneath it

Destroying your opponents weapon should not be an optimal strategy in nearly all instances.  Only vast differences in weapon material strength (adamantium vs wood say) should lead to a weapon simply being destroyed outright.  Armour/clothing on the other hand should take damage pretty much as a matter of course pretty much whenever they are hit by anything with any force at all.  Ordinary clothing might occasionally be able to get in the way of a blade but they should then be basically ripped to shreds.

[Admiral Obvious]

Destroying your opponents weapon should not be an optimal strategy in nearly all instances.  Only vast differences in weapon material strength (adamantium vs wood say) should lead to a weapon simply being destroyed outright.  Armour/clothing on the other hand should take damage pretty much as a matter of course pretty much whenever they are hit by anything with any force at all.  Ordinary clothing might occasionally be able to get in the way of a blade but they should then be basically ripped to shreds.

I can imagine a solid enough Warhammer striking against the flat end of a sword would be able to do some pretty decent damage. At least making the sword shudder under the weight of the impact. This can lead to bending or denting of the sword.

The examples given for damage are kind of on the extreme end for what I had an idea for. Weapons regularly got chipped and bent in the real world, particularly in the bronze era. It's not out of the question for "the usual" combat to slowly chip away at a weapons quality, especially if it has a pointy end that hits something solid.

As for magical clothes, I have to agree. Nothing quite irritates me more than an iron battle axe getting "deflected" by a rope reed loincloth... It might happen once if the defender is lucky, but it shouldn't happen time and time again, the clothing should be shredded after 2 strikes.

As for repairs, for reasons of dwarfyness, I believe it could be possible to 100% repair weapons with a skilled enough dwarf.

The only reason I vote no is because I play primarily adventure mode. seeing the new updates on the way, This is actually a great idea, so long as i can replace my broken shite!

Your answer should be put under the Yes if... category then.

Given that we'll be able to chop trees, and build workshops in the next update in ADV Mode, I can forsee that the creation of forges might be possible in the not too distant future too.

[Atomisk]

Your answer should be put under the Yes if... category then.

Given that we'll be able to chop trees, and build workshops in the next update in ADV Mode, I can forsee that the creation of forges might be possible in the not too distant future too.

Yeah i kind of realized that after i clicked it. Heh.

[Libash_Thunderhead]

I was thinking weapons could potentially be divided into "limbs" like your average living thing

I got the image about one dwarf wielding another dwarf as a weapon.

-----------------------------------------------

The Axedwarf strikes The Goblin Lasher in the head with his (copper battle axe), but the attack is deflected by the (iron helm).
The (copper battle axe) takes the full force of the impact and its head sails off in an arc!

Goblin: Haha, your luck just ran out it seemed.
Dwarf: Yeah, unfortunately, I have to kill you, in a much slower way.

*start poking the goblin with the shaft*

[Admiral Obvious]

I was thinking weapons could potentially be divided into "limbs" like your average living thing

I got the image about one dwarf wielding another dwarf as a weapon.

-----------------------------------------------

The Axedwarf strikes The Goblin Lasher in the head with his (copper battle axe), but the attack is deflected by the (iron helm).
The (copper battle axe) takes the full force of the impact and its head sails off in an arc!

Goblin: Haha, your luck just ran out it seemed.
Dwarf: Yeah, unfortunately, I have to kill you, in a much slower way.

*start poking the goblin with the shaft*

Yup, that was essentially the point. Dividing weapons into parts like described should be "relatively" simple, and it would probably appropriately work to compensate for the modularity of weapons.

Swords would have an upper body, a lower body, and the handle/pommel.

Axes/Hammers/Spears would have heads, shafts, and probably something else.

Who knows, maybe the shaft would be more effective than the axe head itself if it were small enough? Not to mention that you could probably give edgeless weapons to the fortress guard, so punishment isn't lethal, but gets the point across quite well.

[GoblinCookie]

I can imagine a solid enough Warhammer striking against the flat end of a sword would be able to do some pretty decent damage. At least making the sword shudder under the weight of the impact. This can lead to bending or denting of the sword.

The examples given for damage are kind of on the extreme end for what I had an idea for. Weapons regularly got chipped and bent in the real world, particularly in the bronze era. It's not out of the question for "the usual" combat to slowly chip away at a weapons quality, especially if it has a pointy end that hits something solid.

As for magical clothes, I have to agree. Nothing quite irritates me more than an iron battle axe getting "deflected" by a rope reed loincloth... It might happen once if the defender is lucky, but it shouldn't happen time and time again, the clothing should be shredded after 2 strikes.

As for repairs, for reasons of dwarfyness, I believe it could be possible to 100% repair weapons with a skilled enough dwarf.

The warhammer might do damage but it would not actually destroy the sword and a decent blacksmith would simply beat it back into shape in no time provided it is made of steel.  The real issue here is the material the sword is made of. 

Some metals (bronze for instance) are cast into shape.  Other metals are beaten into shape (steel) and it stands to reason to metals that are beaten into shape are more easily repaired than those that are cast, a 100% repair should not be possible at all however skilled the person doing the repairing.  It should not be possible to repair stone or wood items at all, they would have be thrown away and replaced.

[Bumber]

Goblin: Haha, your luck just ran out it seemed.
Dwarf: Yeah, unfortunately, I have to kill you, in a much slower way.

*start poking the goblin with the shaft*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y

[Admiral Obvious]

I can imagine a solid enough Warhammer striking against the flat end of a sword would be able to do some pretty decent damage. At least making the sword shudder under the weight of the impact. This can lead to bending or denting of the sword.

The examples given for damage are kind of on the extreme end for what I had an idea for. Weapons regularly got chipped and bent in the real world, particularly in the bronze era. It's not out of the question for "the usual" combat to slowly chip away at a weapons quality, especially if it has a pointy end that hits something solid.

As for magical clothes, I have to agree. Nothing quite irritates me more than an iron battle axe getting "deflected" by a rope reed loincloth... It might happen once if the defender is lucky, but it shouldn't happen time and time again, the clothing should be shredded after 2 strikes.

As for repairs, for reasons of dwarfyness, I believe it could be possible to 100% repair weapons with a skilled enough dwarf.

The warhammer might do damage but it would not actually destroy the sword and a decent blacksmith would simply beat it back into shape in no time provided it is made of steel.  The real issue here is the material the sword is made of. 

Some metals (bronze for instance) are cast into shape.  Other metals are beaten into shape (steel) and it stands to reason to metals that are beaten into shape are more easily repaired than those that are cast, a 100% repair should not be possible at all however skilled the person doing the repairing.  It should not be possible to repair stone or wood items at all, they would have be thrown away and replaced.

Exactly, the warhammer wouldn't destroy the sword, but given certain circumstances, it could alter the ability of the sword to make a clean slice, and would probably influence the ability to stab something.

I would think that weapons which required casting would have to be almost completely reforged in order to be able to do anything useful. Requiring the weapon to be melted down, and recast in order to become useful again in the event of an extreme "malfunction" for lack of a better term. As for metals "beaten into shape" once bent in a way it's not supposed to, or cracked, that point in the metal becomes a potential structural failing, which would be interesting to possibly see modeled. Reusing a sword that was dented, and put back into shape via hammering could lead it to bending again at the same point, probably even worse than the initial bend.

Goblin: Haha, your luck just ran out it seemed.
Dwarf: Yeah, unfortunately, I have to kill you, in a much slower way.

*start poking the goblin with the shaft*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y

I forgot that video existed, thanks for bringing it back to me.