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[TD1]

Pretty much my preferred option at this point.

Any deal which EU has so far accepted (which is a singular 'deal' which they won't budge on) has had disastrous long term implications. Rip off the bandage, let it bleed and heal. Seems the only real option at this point.

As for DUP actually representing its voters, that's something I've noticed about them in relation to English politics. The political system is in turmoil over here, but I trust that if a local politician says a certain policy is anathema to them, it will largely remain so. There remains a trace of conviction within their politics which is lacking in English parties.

[Kagus]

I wonder how many other EU countries are seriously considering secession now after watching the glorious clusterfuck that the UK managed to kick up...

[smjjames]

Would the DUP want a hard border to the point where people are worried about The Troubles 2.0: Electric Boogaloo though? I've read things that there is already a bit of unrest (or maybe it's just the low simmering broil that's always present, not sure) and a lot of people are concerned about things going bad if Brexit crashes through.

I wonder how many other EU countries are seriously considering secession now after watching the glorious clusterfuck that the UK managed to kick up...

The UK has some pretty unique circumstances though. Any EU countries attempt at secession would be it's own kind of clusterfuck due to their particular circumstances and situations that need dealing with. Who's to say that another country attempting it would have a stronger leader than Theresa May.

About the only one I know of that has talked about it recently is Italy, though that was during their elections and was being used as a political tool which they backed off of. Right wingers and other euroskeptics seem to be more of the 'lets reform from within' attitude than 'EXXXIIITTTT!!!!' these days.

[ChairmanPoo]

Both Italian parties dropped exiting the EU from their programmes before the election. Just like the rest of Euroskeptic parties, really. It's a poisonous potato of sorts now.

[TD1]

I wonder how many other EU countries are seriously considering secession now after watching the glorious clusterfuck that the UK managed to kick up...

I've no doubt that's a large part of the point.

Would the DUP want a hard border to the point where people are worried about The Troubles 2.0: Electric Boogaloo though? I've read things that there is already a bit of unrest (or maybe it's just the low simmering broil that's always present, not sure) and a lot of people are concerned about things going bad if Brexit crashes through.

Again, they are listening to their voters. For example Donald from Lisburn, who in this article stated that

I voted for Brexit expecting that we would all be out of the EU – not just England, Scotland and Wales. We in Northern Ireland can’t be simply halfway out.

“Sorting out the border should be the business of our government and the one in Dublin, not Europe or Brussels. Most unionists like myself will tell you they don’t want a hard border, but they also don’t want their British identity or nationality compromised. There are a lot of things I don’t agree with regarding the DUP, like their opposition to gay rights. But they do defend the union and they did so on Monday by rejecting that deal.”

Read the article for more voters' opinions if you want.

As for unrest over the border.... not really, no. A wee bit of unrest in general, but that's fairly normal. A lot of people (perhaps in this I am biased, as it may simply be a lot of people who I know/interact with) don't see why the border issue is such a large spanner in the talks. Certainly there is a desire to have the issue resolved, but the amount of emphasis on it seems out of proportion.

[Dorsidwarf]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47143135

Donald Tusk says there's "a special place in hell" for those british MPs who "promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan of how to carry it out"

British MPs unamused, for some reason, and he seems to have walked back on said statements since.

At the end of their press conference, Mr Varadkar was picked up by the microphones telling Mr Tusk: "They'll give you terrible trouble in the British press for that."

[Loud Whispers]

Pathetic, he should've stuck by his words

[Il Palazzo]

In what way he hasn't, though?

[Loud Whispers]

In what way he hasn't, though?

he seems to have walked back on said statements since.

It's also rather irritating how Juncker and Tusk have misplayed the EU's hand so consistently, refusing to compromise with Cameron or never ceasing in their capacity to pointlessly insult the UK's factions. It's rather alike a pack of dogs fighting amongst themselves, then the wolf jumps in and the pack of dogs unite. I would much rather the EU remain respectful and allow our own house of cards to devour itself than for its incompetent drunkards to show up and unite the pack against such a blatantly exploitable incident

[Il Palazzo]

Nevermind all that. I'd like to know how he walked back on that statement, since I can't see anything to that effect in the news.

[hector13]

In what way he hasn't, though?

he seems to have walked back on said statements since.

It's also rather irritating how Juncker and Tusk have misplayed the EU's hand so consistently, refusing to compromise with Cameron or never ceasing in their capacity to pointlessly insult the UK's factions. It's rather alike a pack of dogs fighting amongst themselves, then the wolf jumps in and the pack of dogs unite. I would much rather the EU remain respectful and allow our own house of cards to devour itself than for its incompetent drunkards to show up and unite the pack against such a blatantly exploitable incident

From the point of view of the EU bureaucracy, they want this to go badly so as to discourage other countries from leaving, and that is apparently a successful tactic.

I don’t think they’re wrong though. It is mindbogglingly stupid the Tories has no plan prior to the referendum, even bare bones, for a Leave vote. It is minbogglingly stupid that it appeared none of the contenders for the Tory leadership after Cameron fucked off had a plan, and they all then realized what a poisoned chalice the position actually would be and slowly but surely abandoned their goal,  and left Theresa May holding the bag.

Then she triggers Article 50 with no plan and calls a general election 6 weeks later, and lost a 20-point lead in the ensuing month and a half. I actually - foolishly, naively - thought this would actually encourage dialogue between parties, between the “equal” partners in the UK, but she just carried on with fucking about doing whatever it was she was doing, being told nobody really likes the direction it’s going and is somehow surprised when it turns out nobody really liked the direction it was going.

My favourite part was when Davis stepped out of the Brexit minister role after the Chequers plan, and was replaced by Raab, citing disagreement with the plan. Then a month later, when the plan is finalized, Raab, having been deputy for the entirety and then the man with the plan for the final month also steps down, citing disagreement with the plan he tacitly supported by accepting the position in the first place. Then the media were putting his name forward for a possible leadership bid if May lost the Tory confidence vote!

Anyway, tl;dr Tusk is biased, but he’s also right.

[Loud Whispers]

From the point of view of the EU bureaucracy, they want this to go badly so as to discourage other countries from leaving, and that is apparently a successful tactic.
I don’t think they’re wrong though. It is mindbogglingly stupid the Tories has no plan prior to the referendum, even bare bones, for a Leave vote.

They did have a plan for a leave vote. It was to ape Blair, fuck off to the private sector like Cameron or the media like Osborne, then bide their time until they can join an institution like the EU, UN or NATO on a professional level.

It is minbogglingly stupid that it appeared none of the contenders for the Tory leadership after Cameron fucked off had a plan, and they all then realized what a poisoned chalice the position actually would be and slowly but surely abandoned their goal,  and left Theresa May holding the bag.

But that's wrong. First Boris Johnson's leadership bid was undermined by Gove on Cameron & Osborne's orders, then Andrea Leadsom's was given the same Judas treatment.

In the Tory leadership contest, it was taken as a given that Boris Johnson was going to become Prime Minister. He was a high-profile public figure, he was popular amongst MPs and voters, most importantly he had led a significant portion of the Leave campaign and supported (lukewarmly) the call for a referendum from 2015. That is until Michael Gove, who had been his second in command during the Leave campaign & was the man charged with leading Boris's leadership bid... Withdrew his support and announced his own leadership bid. This split Boris's support between them and forced Boris to withdraw, crippling his leadership bid and leaving Theresa May as the frontrunner. Theresa May then had to beat Andrea Leadsom, but given that she was Home Secretary and Leadsom was not, that was a foregone conclusion. Afterwards, Gove is reported as going on holiday with George Osborne, David Cameron's right hand man and Boris's rival. Gove then returns under May's government in 2017 as the cabinet minister for environmental affairs. We will continue to pick up the pieces of Cameron's machinations for generations to come

*Fake edit
Looking over it, it seems my inference was correct:

Former Prime Minister David Cameron texted Boris Johnson to gloat after the now-Foreign Secretary was betrayed in his Tory leadership bid by Leave Campaign ally Michael Gove, a new book has claimed.
Mr Gove managed Mr Johnson’s campaign to be Mr Cameron's successor, before changing his mind the night before nominations were announced and running himself, forcing Mr Johnson to withdraw from the contest.
Mr Cameron, who campaigned to remain in the EU and resigned over the referendum result, texted Mr Johnson and said "you should have stuck with me, mate," following the debacle, author Tim Shipman has said.

Cameron & Osborne got Gove to destroy the Boris bid

Even after Theresa May's rivals got the punt, the scant few MPs who actually supported Brexit and were given a say in Brexit planning like Boris or David Davis were sidelined in a complete and utter farce - just before David Davis was going to release his white paper draft, MPs were invited to Chequers house and there the chequers paper drafted by Olly Robbins was released in a 12 hour meeting, and the MPs were told to accept the paper or resign and walk all the way back to London from Buckinhamshire. David Davis resigned immediately; Boris Johnson used the government car to ride back to London and then resigned.

Theresa May supported Remain. She's the one who's poisoned the chalice so no one who actually supported Brexit can implement Brexit, then she can champion this poor martyr narrative that she is the one holding the poisoned bag because everyone else ran away - as she nonetheless kicks them out the door.

Then she triggers Article 50 with no plan and calls a general election 6 weeks later, and lost a 20-point lead in the ensuing month and a half. I actually - foolishly, naively - thought this would actually encourage dialogue between parties, between the “equal” partners in the UK, but she just carried on with fucking about doing whatever it was she was doing, being told nobody really likes the direction it’s going and is somehow surprised when it turns out nobody really liked the direction it was going.

The problem is dialogue within either of the two main parties wasn't even happening, Corbyn wasn't clarifying Labour's position on Brexit versus his own MPs versus his own electorate, much in the same way Theresa May wasn't clarifying the Conservative's position on Brexit versus their own MPs versus their own electorate, with the main difference simply being Corbyn did so with much more dignity and much less dancing.

While there was inter-party dialogue, I am sure nearly everyone was surprised it would occur between Theresa May & Arlene Foster.

My favourite part was when Davis stepped out of the Brexit minister role after the Chequers plan, and was replaced by Raab, citing disagreement with the plan. Then a month later, when the plan is finalized, Raab, having been deputy for the entirety and then the man with the plan for the final month also steps down, citing disagreement with the plan he tacitly supported by accepting the position in the first place. Then the media were putting his name forward for a possible leadership bid if May lost the Tory confidence vote!

David Davis resigned stating that he wouldn't serve in office just to rubber stamp a plan he had no part in making. You are cruel to force me to defend Dominic Raab, but for all to criticise him for this too does not make sense; he resigned over the Irish backstop proposals which were not part of the plan he was tacitly supporting.

Anyway, tl;dr Tusk is biased, but he’s also right.

1. He's wrong, David Cameron didn't support leave.
2. The open contempt he displays is something that belongs in the back of his bar, maybe this is just a bad year for Donalds in international relations, but it's one thing to act like a arse and it's another thing to act like a stupid arse. Every single effort by Remain to prove the EU is working in good faith is undone by these dopey old fucks and it's forcing Leave to rally around the government the same way Theresa May forced Labour to rally around Corbyn. It's not a situation that makes anyone happy as it forces both of us to flip the table of good faith over, because it's clear Donald and Juncker can't be trusted; and so the European Union cannot be trusted. Because you know what they're showing in the British media? Funnily enough, it's Donald Tusk laughing at how much hell they'll give him.

From Downing Street came a tone of resigned exasperation as the prime minister's spokesperson said Mr Tusk might want to perhaps ask himself if his language was helpful.
Behind the scenes Mrs May could be forgiven for banging her head against the wall.
Incendiary language like this could not come at a worse time for the prime minister who is desperately trying to calm down her febrile Brexiteers rather than firing them up.

Do these idiots not understand that if they cannot work with the likes of Cameron and May, they are handing the keys of the party over to leave?

Fingers crossed this actually secures no-deal Brexit. Then I can celebrate, until then it's just pissing off everyone for no gain, all at the behest of a dipshit no one voted for. At least the other Donald has voters

*EDIT
tl;dr
If you're one of the world's most important leaders and you're giving a speech about respect and peace, it's a fucking 10/10 move to end your speech with GO TO HELL.

[Loud Whispers]

Oh boy it's Jezza time

Jeremy Corbyn warned about the threat of "a European empire" and said the EU was creating "a military Frankenstein", a video has revealed. 

In a tirade against a key EU treaty in 2009, the now Labour leader urged people in Ireland to vote against moves towards further European integration and criticised the influence of the Nato military alliance.

He condemned the "militarisation of Europe" and described the impact of Nato as "malevolent".

The newly unearthed footage was published by the Red Roar website.

Speaking at a rally before the 2009 Irish referendum on whether to approve the Lisbon Treaty, which paved the way for more EU integration, Mr Corbyn, then a backbench MP, said: "Under the terms of the Lisbon Treaty, Europe will become subservient to the wishes of Nato and the aims of Nato....What it does is create this military machine, this military Frankenstein, which will be so damaging to all of us."

The MP said Nato was "a global military force with no democratic control, no accountability whatsoever" and added: "We are creating for ourselves here one massive great Frankenstein which will damage all of us in the long run."

Continuing his condemnation of Nato, he said: "Nato's influence has been malevolent, to say the least, on every economy of every country that's been part of it: it's increased vastly military expenditure, it's poured a vast amount of money into the hands of arms manufacturers and aircraft manufacturers and developed for itself this huge power which was far greater than the influence of any one military in any one country. It is also largely unaccountable."

Mr Corbyn said a vote in Ireland against the Lisbon Treaty would be "such a boost to people like us" who "do not want to live in a European empire of the 21st century."

"I obviously hope and believe that the Irish people will vote no," he said.

He was speaking shortly before Ireland's second referendum on the treaty. The first, in 2008, delivered a vote against it being adopted.

Mr Corbyn also suggested the EU would make Irish voters "keep on voting until they get the result they want”. Ireland eventually voted to support the Lisbon Treaty, allowing its ratification by all EU member states.
[Funny way of saying they were made to revote until the EU got what they wanted]

AWAKEN SUNKEN SOURER

...

You leave any government alone and it'll crumble under its own weight. Now the thing is, in the UK we have little choice in the matter. But I've got to wonder, in the entirety of the European continent, could they not find anyone other than Tusk, Juncker, Rompuy to lead? Was there no one else? The EU has not even finished subjugating Italy or humiliating Greece and yet its useless leaders already see fit to attack every friend?

[Dorsidwarf]

Nevermind all that. I'd like to know how he walked back on that statement, since I can't see anything to that effect in the news.

Been article said his twitter account later deleted the statement where he called all his British counterparts incompetent idiots or whatever

[Dorsidwarf]

I must say, it is fascinating that at the nadir of her popularity, anti-Brexit Theresa “I have no plan whatsoever except to ask nicely a fourth time and hope they concede everything” May won the vote of no confidence, suggesting that the Tories either support her Brexit stance or think that if they throw her out they will lose enough support that they will be unable to form a new government within the deadline (thereby letting mr pro-Brexit Jezzz in). Party politics run strong I guess, and nobody wants to be the person to replace May into this clustertruck.