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[hector13]

Puigdemont has declared that he and his ministers are now a government in exile. He demands that the upcoming elections be turned into an official referendum on Catalonian independence, although he has promised to accept the outcome if it is in favour of Spain.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/puigdemont-wil-officieel-referendum-en-tot-die-tijd-vanuit-ballingschap-regeren~a4526791/

Puigdemont still hasn't gotten it into his head that 1. elections don't work that way and that 2. the constitution still needs to be changed which requires political support outside of Catalonia, either from parties or voters, which likely has been blown due to pulling the independence trigger too early.

Support he knows he won't get because people outside of Catalonia probably don't really care, or if they do, it's to keep it as part of Spain.

Forcing the issue - non-violently, I might add - was pretty much the only option. There's been a lot of news regarding Catalonia independence movement internationally as a result of this anyway; whether or not this was his intention? It does what you say he should be doing.

[RedKing]

This just in: Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

https://youtu.be/CO2G8b5kE_w

Yo sé un pequeño Español. 

Is that supposed to be Franco singing about not being dead?

[Helgoland]

Pretty much, yeah.

casually

Citation needed. In Germany at least they've only tried it three times, and succeeded only twice. One of those cases was a resurrection of the NSDAP, aka the literal Nazi party, and the other the German Communist Party KPD, around the time of Stalin's death.

On a continent with ideologies like that, you need such heavy-handed instruments.

[Maximum Spin]

On a continent with ideologies like that, you need such heavy-handed instruments.

This is certainly a matter amenable to dispute.

[ChairmanPoo]

Worth noting:  Spanish (right wingish) journal El Mundo published  a poll recently in which 58% of the Spanish population was in favor of letting the Catalonians hold a proper referendum. Which is... far higher than I expected TBH.

[hector13]

A majority of Catalans wanted a referendum to happen too. Support for that isn’t the same as support for independence.

[ChairmanPoo]

A majority of Catalans wanted a referendum to happen too. Support for that isn’t the same as support for independence.

So?  If they agree to a binding referendum, they agree to abide by the result, whichever that is.

The important thing here is holding it and/or do an autonomy reform as to avoid that social pressure to mannifest in less pleasant ways. And there is a good chunk of the population in favor of holding it, which gives hope in favor of being able to resolve things in an amicable manner.

BTW after the 155 support for independence grew from 40% to 47.8% in the last poll. If the central goverment keeps this shit going eventually they'll manage to get a supermajority of Catalonian people in favor of independence and then there will be no way to come to a compromise. If the PP was looking after preserving Spanish territory they'd hold the referendum and/or come to an agreement sooner rather than later. Though it may be too late already

(You're aware that I'm not Catalonian, and therefore I'm not a Catalonian nationalist, right? I get the impression you're misunderstanding my position)

[hector13]

I know, I just woke up. Just makin’ sure you weren’t thinking that support for referenda /=/ Support for independence. That seems important in my post-sleep haze.

[Loud Whispers]

So?  If they agree to a binding referendum, they agree to abide by the result, whichever that is.

If they agreed to an advisory referendum they reserve the right to be super salto about the outcome and attempt to torpedo it to the heavens. It's what a lot of people tried, and are trying, in the UK in regards to leaving EU

The important thing here is holding it and/or do an autonomy reform as to avoid that social pressure to mannifest in less pleasant ways. And there is a good chunk of the population in favor of holding it, which gives hope in favor of being able to resolve things in an amicable manner.

BTW after the 155 support for independence grew from 40% to 47.8% in the last poll. If the central goverment keeps this shit going eventually they'll manage to get a supermajority of Catalonian people in favor of independence and then there will be no way to come to a compromise. If the PP was looking after preserving Spanish territory they'd hold the referendum and/or come to an agreement sooner rather than later. Though it may be too late already

What if they go full Stalin and relocate Catalonians to fix the supermajority by physical removal & disenfranchisement

*EDIT

It's still crazy to me how casually so many European nations can just declare a political organization illegal and void basically at will. But going so far as to effectively ban anybody associated with a banned party from political life? Christ, that's a tyranny loophole a mile wide.

Stop right there criminal scum, your post has violated the law

[scriver]

Full Stalin? I'm pretty sure you just mean Full Franco.

[Loud Whispers]

Full Stalin? I'm pretty sure you just mean Full Franco.

Stalin was better at naming. Relocation sounds friendlier than death squad dissident persuasion

[ChairmanPoo]

This just in: Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

https://youtu.be/CO2G8b5kE_w

Yo sé un pequeño Español. 

Is that supposed to be Franco singing about not being dead?

It's a parody of a popular Catalonian song, "El muerto vivo" (Lit, "the living dead"), which is about a guy who is presumed dead while he was actually on a weekend-long alcoholic binge. In the parody, Franco sings about still "being alive" as using the police to violently crack down on unarmed protesters and sending dissenters to prison is pretty much what he would have done.

[Antioch]

In the Netherlands terror suspect Jaouad A is sentenced to 4 years in prison for preparing a terrorist attack.

In his home the following things where found: a Kalashnikov with armour piercing rounds. 288 cobra pieces of firework. A manual to turn said firework into a pipe bomb. A big painting of an IS flag and 289 IS propaganda video files. He was also recorded discussing potential targets for terror attacks with 2 unknown men.

The judge said that with the arrest of Jaouad A a terror attack with a considerable amount of potential casualties has been prevented

-----

Come on, you plan to blow up and shoot down countless of people and you get FOUR years in prison?

I find this seriously disgusting, someone like that should be locked up for life.

[Sheb]

In the Netherlands terror suspect Jaouad A is sentenced to 4 years in prison for preparing a terrorist attack.

In his home the following things where found: a Kalashnikov with armour piercing rounds. 288 cobra pieces of firework. A manual to turn said firework into a pipe bomb. A big painting of an IS flag and 289 IS propaganda video files. He was also recorded discussing potential targets for terror attacks with 2 unknown men.

The judge said that with the arrest of Jaouad A a terror attack with a considerable amount of potential casualties has been prevented

-----

Come on, you plan to blow up and shoot down countless of people and you get FOUR years in prison?

I find this seriously disgusting, someone like that should be locked up for life.

4 years? How the fuck does that make sense? Maybe he isn't a dutch national and they're just wanting to have him deported ASAP after his sentence?

[Antioch]

In the Netherlands terror suspect Jaouad A is sentenced to 4 years in prison for preparing a terrorist attack.

In his home the following things where found: a Kalashnikov with armour piercing rounds. 288 cobra pieces of firework. A manual to turn said firework into a pipe bomb. A big painting of an IS flag and 289 IS propaganda video files. He was also recorded discussing potential targets for terror attacks with 2 unknown men.

The judge said that with the arrest of Jaouad A a terror attack with a considerable amount of potential casualties has been prevented

-----

Come on, you plan to blow up and shoot down countless of people and you get FOUR years in prison?

I find this seriously disgusting, someone like that should be locked up for life.

4 years? How the fuck does that make sense? Maybe he isn't a dutch national and they're just wanting to have him deported ASAP after his sentence?

He was stated as living in Rotterdam. I am getting the impression he has a dual Dutch/Turkish passport, but it isn't stated.