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[redwallzyl]

It sounded rather like the dishonest metaphors used by a lot of pundits.

Well, provinces are equivalent to states, right? When you boil it down, they're both adminstrative regions.

There are immense differences in authority and respect for the provinces of a unitary state and the states of a federation. As we're now seeing in Catalonia. The US government doesn't have the authority to dissolve a state government in perpetuity, ever. At best, an armed rebellion leads to temporary military administration and then reconstruction.

That's why federalism is a more preferable setup.

[ChairmanPoo]

Well, provinces are equivalent to states, right? When you boil it down, they're both adminstrative regions.

There are immense differences in authority and respect for the provinces of a unitary state and the states of a federation. As we're now seeing in Catalonia. The US government doesn't have the authority to dissolve a state government in perpetuity, ever. At best, an armed rebellion leads to temporary military administration and then reconstruction.

Er, technically neither does the Spanish goverment. Cat. electioms the 21st of december according to Rajoy. Even he's aware that making it longer would risk getting an actual armed rebellion

[MetalSlimeHunt]

My understanding from what you've been saying in this thread is that he could under the Spanish constitution risk armed rebellion and just dissolve the legal entity of Catalonia "forever". Sure there are practical limits like pissing everyone off so much they all try to kill you, that's true for any country. But you told us that a lot of these problems stem from Spain being a pseudo-federation instead of a real one.

[ChairmanPoo]

My understanding from what you've been saying in this thread is that he could under the Spanish constitution risk armed rebellion and just dissolve the legal entity of Catalonia "forever". Sure there are practical limits like pissing everyone off so much they all try to kill you, that's true for any country.

Mmmmm... it wasn't my intention to imply that. It's more the other way around.  They cannot abolish an autonomy "de jure" forever, but in practice, they could prolong an exception status as much as they wanted, legally speaking.

But you told us that a lot of these problems stem from Spain being a pseudo-federation instead of a real one.

In no small measure they are. Most moderate nationalists would be happier with more devolved autonomy.  Which is what the PP has been undermining for the last 10 years. Hence the current conflict. 
As to the exact conditions and how it compares... I'm not fully aware about how much devolved autonomy US states actually have, and how it compares...

[Pwnzerfaust]

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

Borders are necessary to maintain the prosperity of rich parts of the world and the affluence of those that live in those states. As a resident of a Western country, I for one do not want our borders opened to whoever wants to come. That will lead to a reduction in living standards as millions of poor, uneducated, often illiterate people arrive and drive down wages and drive up crime and lower property values.

[smjjames]

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

Borders are necessary to maintain the prosperity of rich parts of the world and the affluence of those that live in those states. As a resident of a Western country, I for one do not want our borders opened to whoever wants to come. That will lead to a reduction in living standards as millions of poor, uneducated, often illiterate people arrive and drive down wages and drive up crime and lower property values.

*AHEM* The words on the Statue of Liberty?

I agree that there is common sense in not having completely uncontrolled wholly free flow immigration, but I don't think anybody (except maybe the most far-left people) that seriously suggests that.

[hector13]

lol @ imaginary lines are necessary to keep the unwashed from devaluing my shit bravo for the cojones to actually say that man wow

[Pwnzerfaust]

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

Borders are necessary to maintain the prosperity of rich parts of the world and the affluence of those that live in those states. As a resident of a Western country, I for one do not want our borders opened to whoever wants to come. That will lead to a reduction in living standards as millions of poor, uneducated, often illiterate people arrive and drive down wages and drive up crime and lower property values.

*AHEM* The words on the Statue of Liberty?

Are worth about as much as the copper they're engraved upon. Principles are nice, but pragmatism is more important.

I agree that there is common sense in not having completely uncontrolled wholly free flow immigration, but I don't think anybody (except maybe the most far-left people) that seriously suggests that.

Redwall's post seems to imply a total dearth of borders.

lol @ imaginary lines are necessary to keep the unwashed from devaluing my shit bravo for the cojones to actually say that man wow

It's not exactly a new revelation. Does it come as a surprise to you?

[Maximum Spin]

I'd have to say it would be best to just put the unwashed to good use as biofuel.

You think I'm joking, right? I'm not.

[Trekkin]

I'd have to say it would be best to just put the unwashed to good use as biofuel.

You think I'm joking, right? I'm not.

No, I don't think you're joking. It's a ludicrous idea to be sure, but a very common one throughout history when people have let themselves conflate contempt with intellectualism.

[redwallzyl]

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

Borders are necessary to maintain the prosperity of rich parts of the world and the affluence of those that live in those states. As a resident of a Western country, I for one do not want our borders opened to whoever wants to come. That will lead to a reduction in living standards as millions of poor, uneducated, often illiterate people arrive and drive down wages and drive up crime and lower property values.

*AHEM* The words on the Statue of Liberty?

Are worth about as much as the copper they're engraved upon. Principles are nice, but pragmatism is more important.

I agree that there is common sense in not having completely uncontrolled wholly free flow immigration, but I don't think anybody (except maybe the most far-left people) that seriously suggests that.

Redwall's post seems to imply a total dearth of borders.

lol @ imaginary lines are necessary to keep the unwashed from devaluing my shit bravo for the cojones to actually say that man wow

It's not exactly a new revelation. Does it come as a surprise to you?

This is basically what I thought would happen. People love taking peoples comments and taking them to the most extreme interpretation possible. I literally just said that people need to get along better and not be divided in a 'A house divided can not stand kind of way' and people take it as me wanting to invite all of India into their house.

[Pwnzerfaust]

Perhaps that speaks more to the lack of precision in your chosen words.

[Maximum Spin]

No, I don't think you're joking. It's a ludicrous idea to be sure, but a very common one throughout history when people have let themselves conflate contempt with intellectualism.

Who said anything about intellectualism?

[redwallzyl]

Perhaps that speaks more to the lack of precision in your chosen words.

Or the assumptions of the reader.

[Egan_BW]

No, I don't think you're joking. It's a ludicrous idea to be sure, but a very common one throughout history when people have let themselves conflate contempt with intellectualism.

Who said anything about intellectualism?

I agree, it sounded more like it was about gleeful murder.