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[Loud Whispers]

Wouldn't call the Anglo-American nations isolationist, more diplomatically aloof

[martinuzz]

Meanwhile, the Netherlands takes a step towards digitalizing the police force.  After succesful testing in Amsterdam, the national police will start using crime prediction algorithms.
Based off statistical input, the algorithm will predict where burglaries, robberies and other crimes will be most likely to happen, and allow for better targetted police surveilance.

The algorithm can predict crime narrowed down to a 125x125 meter area, based on statistics about things like the history of crimes in the area, the amount of convicted criminals or suspects living in the area, age and gender statistics and the number of people recieving social welfare checks.

Inb4 I'm arrested for a crime I'm predicted to commit 10 years from now, based on my housing location and societal position.

EDIT: In other Dutch news, government formation talks have failed. Immigration and environment turned out to be too big of an issue to bridge the gap between the Green party and the other parties.
Now they need to go back to the drawing board, and try to make a coalition of parties that can make it work. I do hope that does not include Wilders.

[hector13]

I was under the impression that all the major political parties in your parts said they wouldn't work with him? I can't imagine there are enough who will change on that point for it to happen. Does his party have enough seats to form a coalition without another party's aid?

[martinuzz]

I was under the impression that all the major political parties in your parts said they wouldn't work with him? I can't imagine there are enough who will change on that point for it to happen. Does his party have enough seats to form a coalition without another party's aid?

No, they need a minimum of 3 other parties to form a majority coalition. The cordon sanitaire will probably hold the second formation round. But if those fail too, there's not going to be much more options than to include them in the next talks, or end up with a rainbow coalition of many small parties.

[Antioch]

I was under the impression that all the major political parties in your parts said they wouldn't work with him? I can't imagine there are enough who will change on that point for it to happen. Does his party have enough seats to form a coalition without another party's aid?

No, they need a minimum of 3 other parties to form a majority coalition. The cordon sanitaire will probably hold the second formation round. But if those fail too, there's not going to be much more options than to include them in the next talks, or end up with a rainbow coalition of many small parties.

When are we finally going to implement a voting threshold?

Seriously this multitude of tiny parties is making forming a government impossible.

We have ZEVEN parties in parliament with 5 or less seats.

And our biggest party (VVD) has a whopping 22% of seats.

[Pwnzerfaust]

I don't see why they shouldn't include PVV, frankly. All they do by blocking them out is play into their narrative of being oppressed etc. etc. by the political establishment.

Better to let them join the coalition. That way they'll either a) make a fool of themselves and be trashed at the next election, or b) actually contribute. Win-win.

[Antioch]

I don't see why they shouldn't include PVV, frankly. All they do by blocking them out is play into their narrative of being oppressed etc. etc. by the political establishment.

Better to let them join the coalition. That way they'll either a) make a fool of themselves and be trashed at the next election, or b) actually contribute. Win-win.

Actually PVV was already included once (in some super lame construction consisting of the pvv "permitting" or "tolerating" the government)

guess what, PVV pulled the plug and failed miserably.

But I guess people have a bad short term memory here.

[Pwnzerfaust]

So why not just let them fail again? This flailing around trying to include parties like GL which are almost as ridiculous as PVV just to avoid working with Wilders is silly and counterproductive.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Any situation with strong support for a cordon sanitaire is one where it's essentially obligatory. While there is some agreement power in the party bodies deciding upon a coalition, the party seats are still made up of individual members. Introducing a party as divisive as PVV has a real potential to poison the coalition and make bunches of seats both in and out of PVV splinter, leading to political dysfunction and thus a scenario even worse than biting the bullet on the original plan or a rainbow coalition.

[Pwnzerfaust]

I just can't see how including the PVV is a worse solution than involving GL or DENK or PvdD or 50+ or whatever.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I admit to not having super detailed knowledge of the Dutch parties, but I'm not really sure what made the deal with GL fall through. Wikipedia portrays them as pretty usual environmentalist liberal-left types.

DENK is obviously a problem due to recent events, denying the Armenian Genocide, and probably their insistence on the whole "racism registry" thing, so probably not them.

PvdD you could probably get with the same bone you throw to GL (see, get it, throw a bone, because it's like they're an animal party and...yeah...yeah.)

50+ is also a bone-thrower, and given that GL also wants wider retirement benefits anyway...

Now, I get that all of this is kind of askew of the center and center-right parties that did well in the last election, and that in theory PVV is more closely aligned with them. But consider the issues with the parties above working with the right, and let's compare to what issues might arise trying to work with PVV:

Recording ethnicity for all Dutch citizens. (That won't be controversial or anything.)
Prohibition of halal and kosher slaughter (p. 55) (However Wilders has stated that opposition to kosher slaughter was not part of his party's agenda and that support for the ban had been withdrawn)[108] (Depends on Wilders sticking to it or not, but again, something hard to justify in a generally free nation.)
Active repatriation of criminals of foreign citizenship and Dutch nationals originating from the Netherlands Antilles (p. 11) (Geo-politically difficult as well as likely bringing up issues of sending people to be executed in other nations.)
Deportation of criminals having foreign nationality or multiple citizenship back to their country of origin, after a prison sentence (p. 13) (Same, also obviously open to abuse, especially for the dual citizens.)
Restrictions on immigrant labour from new EU member states and Islamic countries (p. 15) (Creates crisis with the EU.)
Removal of resources from anti-climate change programs, development aid and immigration services (p. 17) (Untenable with other parties)
Abolition of the Senate (p. 19) (Major alteration to political structure)
Shutting down of all Islamic schools (p. 15) (Probably controversial, not sure on the status of religious schools in the Netherlands)
Ban on Islamic "gender apartheid" (p. 15) (the fuck does this even mean legally)
General Pension (AOW) age must remain 65 (p. 21) (I gather from all parties having positions on it, as well as there being a party that is ONLY about it, that the pension age is a matter of some concern.)
Governmental communication to be exclusively in Dutch or Frisian (p. 35) (Gonna cause a shitfit)
Dutch language proficiency and a 10-year Dutch residency and work experience requirement for welfare assistance (p. 15) (Gonna result in oppressed minorities)
Constitutional protection of the dominance of the Judeo-Christian and humanistic culture of the Netherlands (p. 35) (Anti-liberal constitutional alteration)
Choosing to defend the essential elements of Dutch culture: freedom of the LGBT community, as well as assured equality of men and women which Islam may challenge (p. 33) (Again vague legally, likely to cause a clusterfuck)
Repeal of anti-smoking legislation in bars (p. 39) (Clearly the worst thing on this list. Need I even go on?)
Investment in more nuclear power plants and clean coal plants to reduce dependency on imported oil and because coal is cheaper (p. 47) (Massively reactionary energy policy with the coal, just unpopular with the nuclear.)
Withdrawal from the European Union. (NEXIT WHEN)
Return to the guilder (old Dutch currency) and cease use of the euro. (NEXIT TODAY)
Abolition of the European Parliament and no cooperation in any EU activity. (NEXIT TOMORROW)
Ask the EU to remove the "Dutch" star in the European flag. (NEXIT FOREVER)
Repeal flight tax or carbon dioxide tax. (Snubs environmentalists AND reduces tax revenue? What a combo!)
Binding referendum on subjects like the EU and a multicultural society. (I can only fucking imagine what this would look like on a ballot.)
No more tax money to "(political) left" organizations. (They'll see the funny side eventually.)
Keeping track of the ethnicity of people who have committed crimes. (Racist propaganda is no big deal or anything)
Select policemen on "decisiveness." (Jackbooted thugs are no big deal or anything)
Binding assimilation contracts for immigrants. (Legal enforcement of culture is no big deal or anything)
Taxes on the Islamic headscarf and prohibition of the Koran. (Proscribing a religion is no big deal or anything)
Ban on headscarves in any public function. (Telling women what to wear is no big deal or anything)
Support "Afrikaners", as it is Dutch heritage. (Lowkey apartheid apology is no big deal or anything)
Opposition to Turkey's membership in NATO and remaining in NATO because it is crucial. (Directly challenging American foreign policy is no big deal or anything)
Halt all support and "propaganda" for Palestine and Palestinians. ("Who is your West Bank settlement, and what does he do?")
No more windmills and funding for durability or CO2 reduction; no more "fiscal greening". (I never knew PVV was so dedicated to trolling environmentalists before now.)

Now, PVV is going to want to pass at least some of that in exchange for the coalition, or there's no actual coalition to be had. So there's two scenarios, really. Either the party influence wins out and there's government dysfunction as the party members get concerned for their future careers and start going askew, or the member influences win out and there's no coalition. There's not a good winning combination here compared to the center and right throwing some possibly controversial but at least scope-limited support to a rainbow coalition in exchange for cooperation compared to the comprehensive and kind of insane policies of PVV, which they will be all the more pushy about due to their numbers. Smaller parties are easier to control and have fewer sticking positions, even if they all want to try to play kingmaker at once.

[martinuzz]

Thing is, there are no members to the PVV. It's a one man party. Wilders is the only member of his party.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

How exactly does that square with holding multiple seats, again? I can't imagine Wilders is allowed to hold them all himself.

[Sheb]

The others MP aren't member of the party officially.

[Arx]

Support "Afrikaners", as it is Dutch heritage. (Lowkey apartheid apology is no big deal or anything)

I just want to point out that this has no inherent apartheid apology in it anywhere. Contextually it could well (I don't know the specifics of the PVV's views on the topic), but the statement standing alone is no more apartheid apology than saying "one should support Germans" is holocaust apology.