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[Sheb]

Hey, I was just explaining to smjjames why you didn't post the link to the source. I'd rather discuss the state too, which is why I dug up the origin and linked to it (but the only thing I've been able to ascertain is that AOW refers to pension age).

But for the record, if you HAD found that on CNN, they'd probably have given you the background you want. 

[smjjames]

Hey, I was just explaining to smjjames why you didn't post the link to the source. I'd rather discuss the state too, which is why I dug up the origin and linked to it (but the only thing I've been able to ascertain is that AOW refers to pension age).

But for the record, if you HAD found that on CNN, they'd probably have given you the background you want. 

I thought you were also criticising Covenant, but anyway, MOVING ON.

As I said earlier, we'd have to look at the specifics of how the CBS got their data. The link that Antioch posted is just a descripion of what happened between two different years and the only description of the why is this bit at the end (english translation off of google:
"Individuals with a non-western background are often dependent on the assistance than those with a Dutch background. For various reasons it is more difficult for them to find work and keep . Thus, they often build fewer years of service at an employer, making them move more of unemployment benefits to help."

Though from the graph, it looks like it's a systemic problem that's been happening for decades and not something that started happening in like, the last decade.

[Sheb]

Does it refers to the same thing? It's not clear that the pics of Covenant refers to the same people as the one in the CBS stats. Are those foreigners or just dutch of non-western decent?

[Sheb]

Yeah, who need background, The_Donald contains the whole truth.    Myself, I'm like you, I never trust the mainstream media, they might not agree with me! Imagine the horror!

Sure, the number are real, but it's not even clear what they refers to for exemple. I don't think they're immigrants at all, but rather Dutch descending from non-western immigrants for exemple. It's also not clear what part of the welfare state this refers to. It doesn't include stuff like unemployment benefits where non-western allochtone accounts for something aotal.

[smjjames]

Yeah, for this kind of thing, you have to be specific of what exactly you're measuring because even if you're looking at the exact same subject, immigrants on welfare in this case, changing even one parameter, like what part of the welfare state or even legal vs illegal can make it look completely different. Also, the one Antioch posted is of a specific subset of immigrants and not immigrants as a whole.

[Sheb]

What do you mean "reticent about the state of EU politics"? Schultz is awesome, Macron is great, Wilders is a cunt, but his chance of getting into government are minimal (he probable doesn't want it, his kind fare better fromt he opposition. We've seen that with the NVA in Belgium for exemple).

It's quite galling that you blame me for not wanting to discuss stuff when I actually went to try to make head or tail of the data and put them in what context I could figure.

[Sheb]

More like a wake-up call I'd say. With luck the stuff that came as tragedy in the 30's will only repeat itself as a (short) farce and won't last.

[smjjames]

There's a few similarities with the 30's, yes, notably the Nationalism and populism, but that's pretty much the only similariry there are far more differences than similarities. There wasn't any kind of immigration crisis in the 1930's I don't believe, for one, other than the run-up to WWII that is.

[TheDarkStar]

There's a few similarities with the 30's, yes, notably the Nationalism and populism, but that's pretty much the only similarity there are far more differences than similarities. There wasn't any kind of immigration crisis in the 1930's I don't believe, for one.

There was strong dislike for certain ethnicities that happened to be living in Europe, though.

[Helgoland]

Sure there was. All the damn Jews were trying to get into the US! Luckily you managed to stop them, at least to a degree.

Also for some reason the German biological clock went haywire, and they started migrating to the East for winter...

[Sheb]

There's a few similarities with the 30's, yes, notably the Nationalism and populism, but that's pretty much the only similariry there are far more differences than similarities. There wasn't any kind of immigration crisis in the 1930's I don't believe, for one, other than the run-up to WWII that is.

Well, in much of Europe we had ethnic minorities a plenty and not just Jews, even though they were usually not "recent" (aka less than a century) arrival. Central and Eastern Europe was a mish mash of Jews, Germans, Poles, Czech and Slovaks, Hungarians, Romanians, Ukrainians etc etc. German were the most ruthless and murderous, but they were far from alone. Ukrainian partisans massacred poles, Czech violently cleansed Germans out after the war, etc etc.

[Azzuro]

Seems Wilder's PVV is largely financed by Americans. How is that legal?

Because it wasn't made illegal? Marine LePen is being financed by Russian banks herself. Washington DC would probably pout and go 'why are you locking us out? We wanna meddle.' If you tried to make it illegal. Not that we'd be able to do anything about it anyway.

Bit of a necro, but is this common in Europe? Not having laws against foreign campaign spending in domestic elections?

[Sheb]

Depends on countries I guess. In France, the Le Pen thing was technically a loan, not a donation. In Belgium our campaign finance law are very strict, so it wouldn't fly.

[Bralbaard]

Campaign donations of considerable size are frowned upon no matter the source or party in Dutch elections.
The system is quite different from the USA.

Some parties have a system where their politicians agree to turn in a -sometimes very considerable- part of their wage ( like the SP, they are by far the richest party) or have other systems were members pay some form of contribution. There are goverment subsidies too. Total campaign spending in the previous elections was aparently 10.7 million for all parties combined (we have quite a few).

Can't find much about the PVV but Wilders makes it a point not to accept any members to his party exept for himself, because, ehm because you can't trust anyone but yourself. That, and sharing power is difficult too. That means that he is completely dependent on outside donations. His finances are likely not that different in size from other parties, but it's hard to find anything specific.

[smjjames]

Doesn't the PVV already have like 20 seats in Dutch Parliament though?