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Author Topic: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread  (Read 1104453 times)

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #1650 on: April 07, 2016, 05:47:03 pm »

France fights prostitution by fining clients
It is one of thing that confuses me so hard. Why any secular and liberal country need to fight prostitution? I fail to see any rational reason.
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Teneb

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #1651 on: April 07, 2016, 06:41:14 pm »

2. You have to work*, or you're out of state, out of the country, or sick, in the hospital, or don't have any way to get to your assigned voting site because you got no car and no money for public transport etc. Now you're a criminal for not voting.
As someone who lives in a country with compulsory voting, this is very much untrue.

You can vote out of state, or even in another country (embassy). Voting areas tend to be all over the place unless you are in a rural region, so most of the time you can just walk. If you are too sick/physically unable to move, you can just present a paper from a medic and they'll exempt you from it. And even if you cannot provide an appropriate excuse, you just need to pay a fine (which is in the low double digits, we're talking ~R$10 (conversion rate is around US$1 = R$3,6 right now) here).

France fights prostitution by fining clients
It is one of thing that confuses me so hard. Why any secular and liberal country need to fight prostitution? I fail to see any rational reason.
Because the prostitutes themselves rarely make much of a profit out of it. In fact, they got it pretty bad. Pimps, drug dealers, human traffickers and such are the ones who make most of the cash off of it.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 06:44:37 pm by Teneb »
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Helgoland

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #1652 on: April 07, 2016, 07:38:38 pm »

France fights prostitution by fining clients
It is one of thing that confuses me so hard. Why any secular and liberal country need to fight prostitution? I fail to see any rational reason.
Because the prostitutes themselves rarely make much of a profit out of it. In fact, they got it pretty bad. Pimps, drug dealers, human traffickers and such are the ones who make most of the cash off of it.
Then fight human trafficking and exploitation, not prostitution. Bans like this just re-inforce the notion that sex work is somehow special, separate from other types of work.
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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #1653 on: April 08, 2016, 02:56:07 am »

Well, it is not a job like any other. How would you feel if someone was refused benefits for failing to take up a prostitution job (As some tabloids were pretending happened in Germany) as opposed to failing to take up a job serving McBurgers?
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #1654 on: April 08, 2016, 03:03:15 am »

2. You have to work*, or you're out of state, out of the country, or sick, in the hospital, or don't have any way to get to your assigned voting site because you got no car and no money for public transport etc. Now you're a criminal for not voting.
As someone who lives in a country with compulsory voting, this is very much untrue.

You can vote out of state, or even in another country (embassy). Voting areas tend to be all over the place unless you are in a rural region, so most of the time you can just walk. If you are too sick/physically unable to move, you can just present a paper from a medic and they'll exempt you from it. And even if you cannot provide an appropriate excuse, you just need to pay a fine (which is in the low double digits, we're talking ~R$10 (conversion rate is around US$1 = R$3,6 right now) here).

France fights prostitution by fining clients
It is one of thing that confuses me so hard. Why any secular and liberal country need to fight prostitution? I fail to see any rational reason.
Because the prostitutes themselves rarely make much of a profit out of it. In fact, they got it pretty bad. Pimps, drug dealers, human traffickers and such are the ones who make most of the cash off of it.
Right. And I'm sure all that can be generalized to all countries  ::)
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Sheb

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #1655 on: April 08, 2016, 03:23:42 am »

Gosh, apparently I lost my studies on the subject when my computer crashed. Basically, what most of them find is that while legalizing prostitution leads to a decrease of the percentage of prostitutes that are exploited, the concurrent boom in the sex industry means that in absolute term, human trafficking and the like increase.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #1656 on: April 08, 2016, 05:04:01 am »

Prostitution shouldn't be just another work. I am against most forms of legal sex industry because as soon as country starts taking taxes from something it becomes interested in more of it.

My problem with such fines is simple. Any kind of sex between consenting adults shouldn't be illegal in any secular country

What needs to be countered is forcing to prostitution. This fines will have an opposite effect, because it will cause more demand for underground brothels.
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martinuzz

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #1657 on: April 08, 2016, 05:19:51 am »

Gosh, apparently I lost my studies on the subject when my computer crashed. Basically, what most of them find is that while legalizing prostitution leads to a decrease of the percentage of prostitutes that are exploited, the concurrent boom in the sex industry means that in absolute term, human trafficking and the like increase.

Is this concurrent boom correlated to the legalization of prostitution, or is there perhaps more correlation with the creation of Schengen open borders, turning every EU country into a human trafficking paradise? IIRC, we had our illegal prostitution under control pretty well in the Netherlands, before Schengen, with prostitution having been legal for decades.
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Helgoland

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #1658 on: April 08, 2016, 08:07:22 am »

Well, it is not a job like any other.
Okay, let me re-phrase: They reinforce the notion that prostitution is immoral, dirty work. It's a sublte (or not-so-subtle) way of separating prostitutes from 'proper women.
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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #1659 on: April 08, 2016, 08:11:47 am »

Gosh, apparently I lost my studies on the subject when my computer crashed. Basically, what most of them find is that while legalizing prostitution leads to a decrease of the percentage of prostitutes that are exploited, the concurrent boom in the sex industry means that in absolute term, human trafficking and the like increase.

Is this concurrent boom correlated to the legalization of prostitution, or is there perhaps more correlation with the creation of Schengen open borders, turning every EU country into a human trafficking paradise? IIRC, we had our illegal prostitution under control pretty well in the Netherlands, before Schengen, with prostitution having been legal for decades.

Was it? I though prostitution was only legalized in 2004?
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Sinistar

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #1660 on: April 08, 2016, 10:26:10 am »

> we need compulsory voting
1. Elections cost money. Serve more people, more cost. More ballots, more ability to accommodate more people at a time, more machines, more poll monitors, etc.
2. You have to work*, or you're out of state, out of the country, or sick, in the hospital, or don't have any way to get to your assigned voting site because you got no car and no money for public transport etc. Now you're a criminal for not voting.
3. Or you go vote in primaries but don't know shit about the choices. Someone will tell you who to vote for so you don't have to think about it though. Then in the general you vote party line like now.

Basically I think if someone's not voting they either find it difficult to get to the polls, or it takes too much time, or they don't think it accomplishes anything (say they're a Democrat in a heavily Republican state), and making voting compulsory wouldn't change any of that - it would just criminalize not voting.

Mind you, I've never experienced a non-us voting system. Maybe you're speculating about this for some place where there aren't poor people with limited access to voting, or where it doesn't break down to picking between two sometimes meaningful choices, or sometimes no choices (people running unopposed).
The way I see it:
1. I have never experienced voting sites being overburdened from where I come from, most of the time they could easily accommodate more people for the money they are currently getting. Could they accommodate all? That's a good question, I admit. We could found ourselves needing more money if we go that way, but that's a discussion for economists.
2. Pretty much what Teneb said, but also: even in my no-compulsory voting country you already have a system that let's you vote in advance/out of the country etc. If we just build on that to eliminate possible misuse and wrong accusation (in case of sickness, as you put it), I think the system could work.
3. True. As I said, even with such system in place, there is not automatic guarantee all of the people will actually think what they are voting for. I'd speculate that if they are being slightly forced (that is, compulsory voting), they might actually think about it more, but it is up in the air.


Regarding criminalizing prostitution: I think this is tackling the problem at the wrong end. If you want to decrease the prostitution in general,for whatever reasons, simply fining people won't do. I can see how it could help, because that way some people will be to scared to engage in/with prostitution, but on the other hand, as Ukrainian Ranger put it, those who wont be scared by the fines will probably be forced to pay even more for it which in turn would probably make the underground market even harsher as more money and more danger brings out more ruthless criminals to exploit the situation.
When it comes to paying for sex, we have to realize this is nothing new. Regarding this topic I've just recently read a comment somewhere that sex should be done only between people who love each other. And while such thinking is nice, it is a bit naive. Apart from procreating and love people also had sex for the sake of pure physical pleasure since before Babylon stood, pretty much. Paying for any sort of pleasure is just a few steps further down the line. Personally, I think it would be better if prostitution was legalized because with certain regulations, health checks etc. it can potentially lead to more safety for everyone involved. Of course you would not eradicate illegal activities totally, but it could be beneficial none the less. Still, there is some truth in what UR said - more money, even if it goes to the state, could still lead  to exploitation...

At best, I think any country trying to tackle with illegal prostitution should take a look at countries where prostitution is legalized, like Netherlands and Germany. Consider what are the benefits and downside of such system vs. complete ban on prostitution. That's my opinion, at least.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 10:28:32 am by Sinistar »
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martinuzz

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #1661 on: April 08, 2016, 05:15:46 pm »

Was it? I though prostitution was only legalized in 2004?
It was officially scrapped as a criminal offense in 2000 (a process started by parliament in 1981), but has had the same status as weed has ("gedoogd" = officially illegal, but no legal action taken against) since the 1970s.
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Sheb

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #1662 on: April 09, 2016, 03:19:35 am »

Should be noted too that the dutch implementation prevents non-EU people from working the sex trade, so all people from outside the EU are de facto working illegally.
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martinuzz

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #1663 on: April 09, 2016, 04:52:23 am »

Today a 7 year old Afghan refugee rescued himself and his fellow passengers, who were trapped in a truck container in the UK, and running out of oxygen.
Volunteers had handed out cellphones to refugees in the Calais woods, and this boy had one of them.
The kid sent this message to Liz Clegg, a British aid worker:

"I NED HALP DARIVAR NO STAP CAR NO OKSIJAN IN THE CAR NO SIGNAL IAM IN THE CANTENAR, IAM NO JOKAN VALLA."

The aid worker, recognizing the number as one of the phones she had helped distribute, realized this was no prank, and manage to decipher the message.
She then called the UK police from the US (she received the message while on a conerence in New York).
British police then used an Afghan interpreter to call the number, where the boy confirmed that they were trapped in a container and running out of oxygen.
The police traced the cell, and found an abandoned truck at the side of the highway near Leicestershire. In the truck, they found 16 migrants near suffocation.
Fourteen adults have been arrested for illegally entering the country, one adult has been arrested for human trafficking, and the boy, who was traveling with his older brother, has been placed in the care of child protective services.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 04:57:25 am by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #1664 on: April 09, 2016, 04:57:17 am »

Quote
I think it would be better if prostitution was legalized because with certain regulations, health checks etc. it can potentially lead to more safety for everyone involved.
I think we look at the problem at very different angles. As I read your words I see something like this:

I think it would be better if homosexual(group, BDSM, whatever) sex was legalized because with certain regulations, health checks etc. it can potentially lead to more safety for everyone involved.

What happens between consenting adults is not something that government should touch. Whatever they do before, during and after sex is their own matter.


Sex industry may use slavery and rape and it is a different problem.
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.
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