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[chaoticag]

So what metric are we using exactly when deciding that some people are perfectly sane when they kill and others are insane?

[Vilanat]

While I don't view the Belgians as lazy and drunk like xxseuzxx does, I do agree that Belgium has a really serious problem going on, I mean, the guy stayed there for three freaking months and apparently the Belgian intelligence services are incompetent as all hell. One US intel official even had choice words for the Belgian intel services: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/22/u-s-officials-bash-shitty-belgian-security-forces.html

But really, the problem with Belgium goes deeper than just incompetent intel services and lies in the broken government of Belgium.

Not sure if I saw some rumor or chatter (or maybe it was the usual talk) of France wanting to annex the Wallonian part of Belgium. Not that I'd advocate them doing it by force obviously.

Yeah, it goes deeper than that:

"We’re essentially talking with people who are—I’m just going to put it bluntly—children. They are not pro-active, they don’t know what’s going on. They’re in such denial. It’s such a frightening thing to admit their country is being taken over.”

I've got a question for you Europeans. were you relived to find out that these terrorists were born in Belgium or would it have been better if they were Refugees? does the fact they were born in Belgium has any implication on the question of accepting the Illegal Immigrants/Refugees?

[smjjames]

The old 'Remember Breivik' refrain rings rather hollow when the statistics point to 90%+ of these kind of attacks (scroll down to terrorist attacks) being jihadism. Don't forget to count Chechen separatism too, as there's definitely an overlap there.

Inb4 someone moans about using Wikipedia for a long list of easily individually-confirmable events (and probably posts a Salon article to refute me, kek).

Good,as I can refer to them as EUloi.

That was actually pretty clever, nice.

How about you point to ACTUAL statistics, over half of those are from the last 20-30 years, there are very few listed beyond the 70's

[Pancaek]

were you relived to find out that these terrorists were born in Belgium

Wat. Why would we even be relieved that they were born in Belgium instead of being refugees?

[Sheb]

Yeah, if they were refugees the solution would be easy.

[chaoticag]

https://www.europol.europa.eu/content/european-union-terrorism-situation-and-trend-report-2015
There's a report on there, lemme go ahead and quote the relevant section here.

The number of attacks increased in 2014, contrary to the trend(2) in past years. A total of 201 failed, foiled or completed terrorist attacks were reported by seven EU Member States, more than half of them by the UK. Overall, attacks specifically classified as separatist terrorism accounted for the largest proportion, followed by anarchist and left-wing attacks. France reported 50 separatist attacks, all of them in Corsica.

Two attacks were classified as religiously inspired. In one of these attacks, which occurred inside the Jewish Museum of Belgium in Brussels, the perpetrator used a semi-automatic rifle to kill four people. In addition to the four fatalities in Belgium, injuries as a result of terrorist activities were reported by France and Greece.

This is relevant to 2014, so it's still pretty recent. Page 8 of the report for reference.

[Vilanat]

I have seen pro refugee Europeans relish the fact that these were European born, so it's ok to accept refugees. so the more important question is whether the fact they were Belgian born has any implication on your stance toward accepting refugees?

[Pancaek]

I have seen pro refugee Europeans relish the fact that these were European born, so it's ok to accept refugees. so the more important question is whether the fact they were Belgian born has any implication on your stance toward accepting refugees?

Goddamn, that's retarded. No, it has no implication on my personal stance on refugees. Whereas my stance used to be pessimistic with a cautiously optimistic side, my smile and optimism are pretty much gone by now.

[smjjames]

How about you point to ACTUAL statistics, over half of those are from the last 20-30 years, there are very few listed beyond the 70's

Can you tell me a few terrorist attacks that have occurred since the 70's that aren't listed there? All the ones listed so far in this thread (Charleston Church, for example) seem to be listed.

Or have I misunderstood, and you mean before the 70's? In which case I'd say reaching back so far doesn't really help very much with informing us on the current state of the world.

Kind of helps to set a timeframe rather than point to the list which goes further back than the 1970's.

The lists here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorism-related_lists are more comprehensive. Though they don't list the type like jihadism, you can infer them somewhat.

Heres a bunch from before 1970's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-state_terrorist_incidents

If you want to look in the 18th and 19th centuries, you'll have to dive into google.

[Sheb]

Those numbers have the issue that a lot of things are covered under terrorisms. Many terrorists aren't trying to kill as many civilians as possible. That's why jihadis terrorism account for a tiny minority of terrorist acts in Europe, but a vast majority of casualties in the last ten years. Not before though, Europe used to have a LOT of terror victims, mostly separatists and left-wing.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Reelya]

It's surprising how many fewer actual terrorism victims there are in the modern day compared with up to 1992.

What's the average European terrorism causalities per year? Like 20 people or something on average? This is what I'm talking about with actual risk assessment. Millions of Europeans die every year of other causes. The number of Americans killed by lightning strikes per year is 2x the Paris attacks. Maybe the government should invest in special anti-lightning hats?

[Sheb]

Well, that's the Good Friday agreement and the end of the Troubles for you.

[xxseuzxx]

While I don't view the Belgians as lazy and drunk like xxseuzxx does, I do agree that Belgium has a really serious problem going on, I mean, the guy stayed there for three freaking months and apparently the Belgian intelligence services are incompetent as all hell. One US intel official even had choice words for the Belgian intel services: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/22/u-s-officials-bash-shitty-belgian-security-forces.html

But really, the problem with Belgium goes deeper than just incompetent intel services and lies in the broken government of Belgium.

Not sure if I saw some rumor or chatter (or maybe it was the usual talk) of France wanting to annex the Wallonian part of Belgium. Not that I'd advocate them doing it by force obviously.

the only people i refered to as drunks and lazy bums are the relatives of mine that stayed on austria and croatia.
the current ones near my age are the target of my words.
also i have been reading about the politics at Belgium and wtf is that about..

[smjjames]

also i have been reading about the politics at Belgium and wtf is that about..

One of the Belgian Bay12ers could probably explain it best. From what I know, it's due to a split between the Walloonians (French-Belgians) and Flemish (Dutch-Belgians) which has been around for centuries. It's basically two countries in one.

I guess the closest possible US analogy would be right after the Civil War, but the divisions go far deeper than that because they speak different languages for one.

[Pancaek]

also i have been reading about the politics at Belgium and wtf is that about..

Belgian here, fuck if I even know anymore. The french part want their slice of pie, the flemish part wants their slice of pie, and the brussels part that speaks both languages also want some pie. To me it seems like they always just keep cutting the pie into smaller and smaller pieces and what's left is just a big mess.