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[Ukrainian Ranger]

BTW, speaking of Russia, are there any interest in Litvinenko case in EU media?

[nullBolt]

Wikipedia editors are trying to delete the "Taharrush gamea" page and it's turned into a shit storm on the Talk page. All because of the New Year's Eve stuff in Cologne.

Page link.
Talk page link.

Gonna post this in it's own topic, actually.

okay then

attempt №2 at switching topic: Russia is continuing to build up military forces by ordering up some 50 new Su-35S Super Duper Flankers, undoubtedly planning to use them to conquer up some Yurop clay via insertion of "little green 4.5 gen fighters", international public alarmed. Also Putin reported flexing his muscles, per witnesses reports, who have instantly converted into Orthodoxal Homosexualism upon such magnificent sight (this part may or may not be actually true).

Why are you so interested in switching topic?

[smjjames]

Yeah, we in the US have our own (though greatly different and at the same time, the same) issues with illegal immigration and we aren't afraid to discuss it.

It's just that the politicians can't come to an agreement and so, things go nowhere. Of course though, the situation in Europe is FAR more urgent than it is here in the US.

[smjjames]

BTW, speaking of Russia, are there any interest in Litvinenko case in EU media?

It's been talked about here in the US news that Putin himself very likely approved it, but good luck actually proving that he did so.

edit: Half expected there to be posts between this one and the previous.

[Bouchart]

okay then

attempt №2 at switching topic: Russia is continuing to build up military forces by ordering up some 50 new Su-35S Super Duper Flankers, undoubtedly planning to use them to conquer up some Yurop clay via insertion of "little green 4.5 gen fighters", international public alarmed. Also Putin reported flexing his muscles, per witnesses reports, who have instantly converted into Orthodoxal Homosexualism upon such magnificent sight (this part may or may not be actually true).

It's the EU-related news thread. The biggest issue, by far, that the EU is facing at the moment is this refugee crisis. The Dutch Prime Minister has said it has 6-8 weeks to save itself before collapse. The French PM has said much the same thing.

I understand that it makes some people uncomfortable, because they've been told all their lives that any anti-immigration sentiment is racist, but respectfully, I'd say if such discussion makes you uncomfortable, don't participate. Because there are a lot of us who think it is very relevant, and very important to discuss.

I mean sure there's a place to discuss Russia's armed forces too (though I wouldn't really say it's EU-related news), but for now, this is the big news of the moment.

EDIT: Although honestly, in my personal opinion, I think it's even more important to participate if such discussion does make you feel uncomfortable. We don't deal with unpleasant realities by hiding away from them, we have to meet them head on.

It's only a matter of time before mainland European governments collapse and fascists/nationalists take over.  Whether they deport or wholesale kill their muslim populations is still up in the air.

[Sergarr]

okay then

attempt №2 at switching topic: Russia is continuing to build up military forces by ordering up some 50 new Su-35S Super Duper Flankers, undoubtedly planning to use them to conquer up some Yurop clay via insertion of "little green 4.5 gen fighters", international public alarmed. Also Putin reported flexing his muscles, per witnesses reports, who have instantly converted into Orthodoxal Homosexualism upon such magnificent sight (this part may or may not be actually true).

It's the EU-related news thread. The biggest issue, by far, that the EU is facing at the moment is this refugee crisis. The Dutch Prime Minister has said it has 6-8 weeks to save itself before collapse. The French PM has said much the same thing.

I understand that it makes some people uncomfortable, because they've been told all their lives that any anti-immigration sentiment is racist, but respectfully, I'd say if such discussion makes you uncomfortable, don't participate. Because there are a lot of us who think it is very relevant, and very important to discuss.

I mean sure there's a place to discuss Russia's armed forces too (though I wouldn't really say it's EU-related news), but for now, this is the big news of the moment.

EDIT: Although honestly, in my personal opinion, I think it's even more important to participate if such discussion does make you feel uncomfortable. We don't deal with unpleasant realities by hiding away from them, we have to meet them head on.

It's not about "comfortable" or "uncomfortable", it's about this discussion being incredibly, absolutely boring as hell. There are no new arguments since this mess started, no actual dialog, it's all filled with this incredible tedium of both sides talking past each other and ugh. I haven't seen anyone on neither the anti-migration side nor the pro-migration side offer anything approaching a solution to the problem. Hell I don't think they've even started discussing it, it's all stalled on the stage of "this is happening - no it is not happening - yeah huh - nuh uh" ad nauseum. Fucking ridiculous.

[smjjames]

okay then

attempt №2 at switching topic: Russia is continuing to build up military forces by ordering up some 50 new Su-35S Super Duper Flankers, undoubtedly planning to use them to conquer up some Yurop clay via insertion of "little green 4.5 gen fighters", international public alarmed. Also Putin reported flexing his muscles, per witnesses reports, who have instantly converted into Orthodoxal Homosexualism upon such magnificent sight (this part may or may not be actually true).

It's the EU-related news thread. The biggest issue, by far, that the EU is facing at the moment is this refugee crisis. The Dutch Prime Minister has said it has 6-8 weeks to save itself before collapse. The French PM has said much the same thing.

I understand that it makes some people uncomfortable, because they've been told all their lives that any anti-immigration sentiment is racist, but respectfully, I'd say if such discussion makes you uncomfortable, don't participate. Because there are a lot of us who think it is very relevant, and very important to discuss.

I mean sure there's a place to discuss Russia's armed forces too (though I wouldn't really say it's EU-related news), but for now, this is the big news of the moment.

EDIT: Although honestly, in my personal opinion, I think it's even more important to participate if such discussion does make you feel uncomfortable. We don't deal with unpleasant realities by hiding away from them, we have to meet them head on.

It's not about "comfortable" or "uncomfortable", it's about this discussion being incredibly, absolutely boring as hell. There are no new arguments since this mess started, no actual dialog, it's all filled with this incredible tedium of both sides talking past each other and ugh. I haven't seen anyone on neither the anti-migration side nor the pro-migration side offer anything approaching a solution to the problem. Hell I don't think they've even started discussing it, it's all stalled on the stage of "this is happening - no it is not happening - yeah huh - nuh uh" ad nauseum. Fucking ridiculous.

Welcome to the immigration debate here in the US..... It's been either pro-amnesty or anti-amnesty, even what Trump is saying isn't new either.

Also, sorry for interjecting US politics in here, but hey, it's the same kind of discussion that we have been having for some time now.

[nullBolt]

I'd seen that (it was actually drawn to my attention on the Gamergate subreddit, heh. They're quite good for finding out about this kind of thing). Wikipedia has a real problem with this kind of thing, unfortunately. Very politicized by certain editors/admins, and little to no real effort to be neutral.

Come join me, young Padawan.

It's not about "comfortable" or "uncomfortable", it's about this discussion being incredibly, absolutely boring as hell. There are no new arguments since this mess started, no actual dialog, it's all filled with this incredible tedium of both sides talking past each other and ugh. I haven't seen anyone on neither the anti-migration side nor the pro-migration side offer anything approaching a solution to the problem. Hell I don't think they've even started discussing it, it's all stalled on the stage of "this is happening - no it is not happening - yeah huh - nuh uh" ad nauseum. Fucking ridiculous.

You may find it boring, others do not. Again, instead of trying to change the topic, you should either engage or leave.

Also, there are a huge number of solutions. It's just that people are afraid of doing them because of cultural squeamishness.

Like, it's okay to ruin a man's life by making wild accusations against him but it's not okay for him to die in a gladiatorial arena? I do not grasp my culture any more.

[nullBolt]

Oh god, let's not start using the word 'solution'. All it takes is LW to show up and make one ill-judged shitpost and we'll all have the Dutch police knocking on our door and sending us to the Tolerance Camps.

"We found your forum posting. It could be viewed as seditious. Stop before we sedite you."

[Sergarr]

You may find it boring, others do not. Again, instead of trying to change the topic, you should either engage or leave.

well whatever

Also, there are a huge number of solutions. It's just that people are afraid of doing them because of cultural squeamishness.

Like, it's okay to ruin a man's life by making wild accusations against him but it's not okay for him to die in a gladiatorial arena? I do not grasp my culture any more.

Uhhhhh, are you proposing sticking migrants into giant coliseums and granting the right of freedom to be deported back to Africa/Middle East to ones that emerge victorious in a giant free-for-all?

That certainly sounds entertaining.

[Antioch]

Oh god, let's not start using the word 'solution'. All it takes is LW to show up and make one ill-judged shitpost and we'll all have the Dutch police knocking on our door and sending us to the Tolerance Camps.

"We found your forum posting. It could be viewed as seditious. Stop before we sedite you."

Once again "opruiend" means inflammatory, not seditious.

[martinuzz]

I'm going to wait on martinuzz to confirm that one, but if it's true... What the fuck?

Sadly, I cannot deny that. It is in the light though, of riots that took place the day before, including the throwing of fireworks and stones at the police, as well as the public display of dead pig carcasses hanging in trees at a intended refugee center location, so police is a bit edgy right now.

[Loud Whispers]

It's not about "comfortable" or "uncomfortable", it's about this discussion being incredibly, absolutely boring as hell. There are no new arguments since this mess started

What abouts me

no actual dialog, it's all filled with this incredible tedium of both sides talking past each other and ugh.

I literally cant even likwowo

I haven't seen anyone on neither the anti-migration side nor the pro-migration side offer anything approaching a solution to the problem.

Since 2013 I've been doing this ;-;
You want to talk about Swiss with me?

Oh god, let's not start using the word 'solution'. All it takes is LW to show up and make one ill-judged shitpost and we'll all have the Dutch police knocking on our door and sending us to the Tolerance Camps.

Heil mein merkelfurher, create the ultimate blanda up to conquer Yurop for Euromoney again

NO DUTCH POLIS NO IT WAS BANTER

[Sergarr]

It's not about "comfortable" or "uncomfortable", it's about this discussion being incredibly, absolutely boring as hell. There are no new arguments since this mess started

What abouts me

your posts don't contain mere "arguments"

it's all banter all the way down

no actual dialog, it's all filled with this incredible tedium of both sides talking past each other and ugh.

I literally cant even likwowo

yeah me too

I haven't seen anyone on neither the anti-migration side nor the pro-migration side offer anything approaching a solution to the problem.

Since 2013 I've been doing this ;-;
You want to talk about Swiss with me?

uh
I don't remember you offering any "solutions". If there were, they've been hopelessly lost inside the overwhelming growth mass of sheer unadulterated banter.

[smjjames]

Yeah, we in the US have our own (though greatly different and at the same time, the same) issues

That should sound silly, but I do know exactly what you mean. The issue with certain groups having a vested interest in allowing in large numbers of cheap, undemanding labour seems something of a universal theme on both sides of the Atlantic.

Though as you say, there are different ones as well. I don't claim any authority on this, but I have heard that immigrants largely vote in favour of the Democrats, so the Democrats are often in favour of letting more in to therefore accrue more votes, whereas the Republicans are often against it for the same/opposite reason. Is that the case?

That's generally true, yeah, but not the entire story. As you've probably noticed, the Republicans in general have been pretty hostile (alienating even) to immigrants and minority groups, which drives those voting blocs towards the Democrats.

It's good to hear you aren't afraid of discussing it - although, from what very little I'd heard, a lot of the Republican candidates' immigration 'talking points' in the primary debates were basically 'Let's actually apply the laws', or 'Let's deport the illegal immigrants'. You mention pro-amnesty or anti-amnesty, yourself. That personally doesn't seem very radical to me. Would it be acceptable for say, an anti-amnesty politician to start talking about dramatically lowering the legal amount of migrants, or raising entry requirements, or would that be deemed very radical?

The whole amnesty thing may not seem radical, but it's a major point of contention between the Republicans and Democrats (guess which one is anti-amnesty). As for an anti-amnesty politician saying about dramatically lowering the legal amount of migrants or raising entry requirements, that sounds like it would be a Republican position.

The thing is that it's not legal immigration that is the big deal here (in the US), it's dealing with the illegal immigrants and fixing the broken immigration system which makes it harder to immigrate legally than it does illegally. Which both sides admit is a problem, but can't agree on how to fix, so, things get deadlocked and thus hardly anything gets done.