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[RedKing]

Isn't that the same source we already determined was highly suspect?
*looks*

LOL Epoch Times...topkek for best Falun Gong news


If I see this report corroborated by a reliable media outlet, then I'll concede the point.

[XXSockXX]

If you want to find reports about immigrants sexually assaulting women in Germany you can find plenty, especially in the current climate since New Years, media have lots of these reports.

This particular one however was debunked by Berlin police (link in German), it's not worth discussing.

[nullBolt]

If you want to find reports about immigrants sexually assaulting women in Germany you can find plenty, especially in the current climate since New Years, media have lots of these reports.

This particular one however was debunked by Berlin police (link in German), it's not worth discussing.

The primary problem is that you really can't trust anything that comes from the German police regarding this stuff anymore. Hell, I wouldn't trust the police of any European nation.

It's not exactly a debunking, but this is the kind of stuff that was said by the police at Rotherham before that all came to light:

+++ Information on missing persons case of a 13-year +++
In recent days, we noticed that the interest of the Internet community in the case of a 13 -year-old girl reported missing shortly from Marzahn-Hellersdorf and the circumstances of their absence are great .
Yes , it is true - the girl was reported missing a short time and is now back again. We are aware that a number of statements to be discussed on the facts in the social media .
Fact is - according to the investigations of our LKA there was neither abduction nor rape.
We explicitly ask for your understanding that we will not give details in particular to protect the girl and her family personality .
We also appeal to your sensitive handling of the issue in the social networks .

[RedKing]

Yes, you can't trust German police, better to trust a German affiliate of a virulently anti-PRC Chinese-language news service founded by a fringe religious organization. Next you'll be citing the Washington Moonie Times.

[XXSockXX]

The primary problem is that you really can't trust anything that comes from the German police regarding this stuff anymore. Hell, I wouldn't trust the police of any European nation.

You are wasting your outrage. There are real cases to be outraged about, but this is a hoax.

Both German media and police are careful to correct and avoid the impression that they keep information back. If you read German media (which I suppose you don't), that is noticeable right now. As I said, you can find plenty of reports about sexual assaults committed by immigrants right now, even the Greens are finally officially acknowleding that. If police outright say that nothing happened, in such a sensationalized case, I'm inclined to believe them. If people here kept getting the impression they were constantly being lied to, that would be political suicide right now.

Of course if you are trusting nobody and just want to be outraged...

[nullBolt]

Yes, you can't trust German police, better to trust a German affiliate of a virulently anti-PRC Chinese-language news service founded by a fringe religious organization. Next you'll be citing the Washington Moonie Times.

No, you can't trust them either. I don't trust anything on this either way.

All media lies. That's something you just have to accept. Purposeful lies, lies of omission, white lies, it doesn't matter. You have to get several secondary sources or a few primary sources to get some idea of anything approaching the truth.

The main problem is that you can't trust any political institutions either anymore. They used to be politicised but the politicisation was opposite to the way the media was, so you could get some idea of what the definite facts of something were. Now the German media and the German police lie in the same way and you have to use crazy obscure sources to get any real sort of information about a case.

As an example, the "loony" media source says that the girl was kidnapped and gangraped. The police source says that they have no evidence she was kidnapped or raped. However, they did not state sexual activity didn't occur and they admit that she was missing for a few days. The places where these two sources overlap is where the definite truth is. The majority of the time, at least.

The primary problem is that you really can't trust anything that comes from the German police regarding this stuff anymore. Hell, I wouldn't trust the police of any European nation.

You are wasting your outrage. There are real cases to be outraged about, but this is a hoax.

Both German media and police are careful to correct and avoid the impression that they keep information back. If you read German media (which I suppose you don't), that is noticeable right now. As I said, you can find plenty of reports about sexual assaults committed by immigrants right now, even the Greens are finally officially acknowleding that. If police outright say that nothing happened, in such a sensationalized case, I'm inclined to believe them. If people here kept getting the impression they were constantly being lied to, that would be political suicide right now.

Of course if you are trusting nobody and just want to be outraged...

The primary problem is that being careful to maintain an appearance does not mean it is not going on, it just means they're better at hiding it.

[RedKing]

you have to use crazy obscure sources to get any real sort of information about a case.

And therein lies the way down the rabbit hole. Jet fuel can't melt steel beams, after all.

The primary problem is that being careful to maintain an appearance does not mean it is not going on, it just means they're better at hiding it.

The total lack of credible evidence is not evidence of the lack of a conspiracy, is what you're saying.

[nullBolt]

you have to use crazy obscure sources to get any real sort of information about a case.

And therein lies the way down the rabbit hole. Jet fuel can't melt steel beams, after all.

Of course. Any sort of questioning of facts is a conspiracy theory.

The primary problem is that being careful to maintain an appearance does not mean it is not going on, it just means they're better at hiding it.

The total lack of credible evidence is not the lack of a conspiracy, is what you're saying.

Absence of evidence is, undeniably, not evidence of absence. That's just factual.

I have to ask, did you read the rest of my post or did you just cherrypick those two sentences out to respond to?

[wobbly]

The primary problem is that you really can't trust anything that comes from the German police regarding this stuff anymore. Hell, I wouldn't trust the police of any European nation.

You are wasting your outrage. There are real cases to be outraged about, but this is a hoax.

Both German media and police are careful to correct and avoid the impression that they keep information back. If you read German media (which I suppose you don't), that is noticeable right now. As I said, you can find plenty of reports about sexual assaults committed by immigrants right now, even the Greens are finally officially acknowleding that. If police outright say that nothing happened, in such a sensationalized case, I'm inclined to believe them. If people here kept getting the impression they were constantly being lied to, that would be political suicide right now.

Of course if you are trusting nobody and just want to be outraged...

A question for you, have you ever had to deal with police in their official capacity? I have & they tend to be very good at letting you know, when an issue is not worth your trouble persuing & I'm not 13 & a pretty stubborn person.

I haven't looked into the particular case to form an option on specifics, & even if I had I simply would not know, no real access to the details. Otherwise most of the above strikes me as naive.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

You have to get several secondary sources or a few primary sources to get some idea of anything approaching the truth.

Do you know what usually happens when people do this? They invent their own reality. They combine several sources (some of which are bullshit) and adapt it to fit their own believes and ideas.

[Loud Whispers]

In an effort to improve the quality of the thread I would like to chime in that at all times you should distrust authorities, but now more than ever. Swedish police have confirmed that there were widespread sexual assaults at a music festival in Stockholm last summer but denied allegations of a cover-up.
Police hadn't mentioned the August incidents at the "We are Sthlm" festival until newspaper Dagens Nyheter reported on them this weekend following the sexual assaults on New Year's Eve in Germany.
Stockholm police spokesman Varg Gyllander confirmed to AP on that there was "a large number" of sexual assaults and that scores of men were detained.
He denied a cover-up but said police should have reported on the incidents at the time "given the nature of the crime."
Gyllander couldn't confirm Dagens Nyheter's report that most suspects were from Afghanistan, but said "this involves young men who are not from Sweden."

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

D:

[Reelya]

The only caveat for that chart is that the color-banding can make a 1% difference look much bigger if it's on the borderline. UK is one grade below Sweden, but since each color band is 20%, that could be anything from a 1% difference to a 40% difference in prevalence. In other words "the difference between UK and sweden is somewhere between negligible and absolutely massive", which doesn't tell you anything at all. They could have at least overlayed the actual percentages on top of the map.

That's before we take into account that the wording on sexual assault surveys can massively change your "yes" response rates, different demographics respond differently to different wording (stereotype threat etc), and that's before we consider that each of these surveys is in a different language, which will have all it's own caveats and cultural implications of different wording, as well as different cultural attitudes of what constitutes harassment. Remember that Sweden also has an exceptionally high reporting rate on rapes and sexual harassment compared to other countries. Maybe Swedes are more likely to consider something as harassment that people in the UK will just brush off.

[Graknorke]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

D:

Honestly? I'd expect the figures to be close to 100% everywhere. Depending on how you define sexual harassment anyway. But groping is probably a safe bet and I'd be surprised if anyone hadn't been groped even once unless they just tend to avoid people.

[nullBolt]

You have to get several secondary sources or a few primary sources to get some idea of anything approaching the truth.

Do you know what usually happens when people do this? They invent their own reality. They combine several sources (some of which are bullshit) and adapt it to fit their own believes and ideas.

Really?

Honestly? I'd expect the figures to be close to 100% everywhere. Depending on how you define sexual harassment anyway. But groping is probably a safe bet and I'd be surprised if anyone hadn't been groped even once unless they just tend to avoid people.

The real world isn't all that bad.

I'd say the other caveat is that modern feminism has turned 'sexual harassment' into a very nebulous term, unfortunately. I'm sure many of us remember 'Elevator-gate'. We have no idea how much of that sexual harassment is people being legitimately abused, and how much is someone getting upset for being called 'darling'.

The graphic would probably be more useful if it showed sexual assault statistics, or rapes.

EDIT: You edited your post to address this, I see.

Rape reports in Sweden have went up 900% since they started unrestricted immigration. That's over a 36 year period but Norway and Denmark have not gotten anywhere near the same increase in that time period.

[Graknorke]

The real world isn't all that bad.

I'm not saying it is bad. But to be counted on those statistics it only takes one incident of harassment. Same as how I'd expect near 100% of drivers to have been involved in a traffic collision, or near 100% of people to have ended up a patient in hospital. It's not that it happens all the time, but it happens to basically everybody to some extent.