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[martinuzz]

Yeah. I do believe that the Spanish government will do everything they can think of to keep the region from seceding. Losing Catalonia could plunge Spain into an economic dip that might even take more than the 80 billion that was needed to fund Greece's path towards the next crisis.

[RedKing]

Dismissing the possibility of false accusation alltogether beforehand though, is not very wise, not to mention being in complete disregard of the constitutional state. If you would follow that line of thought to the extreme, and read German newspapers from the 30s-40s you could conclude that Hitler probably was right, and all those raping and murdering jews deserved the gas chambers.

The Nazis never accused the Jews of sexual crimes against the German people (except maybe miscegenation), just that they controlled a very large portion of Germany's economy (which was true).

Stop trying to make the issue with something it's not.

Spoiler: O RLY? (click to show/hide)

That took all of two minutes to find. Here you have the Jew as seducer, the Jew as murderous rapist, and the Jew as pimp.

And from here, we have this tidbit:

Not surprisingly, anti-Jewish sexual themes became a staple of the notorious Nazi newspaper Der Sturmer, edited by Julius Streicher. Allegations of Jews sexually assaulting German women frequently became headline news, boosting circulation through a salacious combination of anti-Semitism and sexual topics that were otherwise taboo.

(Der Sturmer is the paper cited by martinuzz above).







Also...Catalonia? I'll go make more popcorn.

[MonkeyHead]

Pee Tee Eff

[smjjames]

Yeah. I do believe that the Spanish government will do everything they can think of to keep the region from seceding. Losing Catalonia could plunge Spain into an economic dip that might even take more than the 80 billion that was needed to fund Greece's path towards the next crisis.

Maybe it'll become something like the relationship between Scotland and England, an independent country in most aspects, but is still tied to Spain economically and possibly government wise. Although, the relationship would be more parasitic than the Scotland-England relationship.

Also, I saw this in the sidebar when looking at that Catalan independence article: http://www.politico.eu/article/catalonia-spells-trouble-belgium-government-jambon-flanders-separatism/

The recent rise in nationalism is quite the double edged sword over there because there are independence movements within some countries.

Hey Sheb, if Belgium were ever to split, would you identify as Flanderian or Walloonian? Just wondering out of curiosity.

[martinuzz]

As a Kempenaar from North-Brabant, I always identify myself as much with Belgium as I do with the Netherlands, linguistically that is. Someone from The Hague or Amsterdam sounds more foreign to me than someone from Antwerp or Brugge.

[nullBolt]

The Nazis never accused the Jews of sexual crimes against the German people (except maybe miscegenation)

http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/sturmer.htm
May 1934 issue: jews accused of plotting to murder all non-jews
August 1935 issue: jew lures halfnaked women with money
July 1936 rich jew touching woman
April 1942: jews should get death penalty for having sex with Germans

and that's just from one single newspaper.

None of these are remotely close to sex crimes. What are you even talking about? The 1936 one isn't even at all relevant.

Unless you're saying being gang-raped is the same as consensually having sex?

[Loud Whispers]

Accusations =/= confirmed with police and media cover-ups attempted

[SirQuiamus]

In all honesty I still don't understand why machine-guns at the EU border would be a bad thing.

Just. Because.

We already talked about this not long ago. People who claim to be asylum seekers must be legally treated as asylum seekers until proven otherwise. You cannot turn them away at gunpoint without saying "nuts" to the the UN and the rule of law and all that jazz. Your beef is not only with Merkel and the EU, but with also the UN and the rest of the world.

Falls short right at the point of being permitted entry by border authorities, bypassed entirely
Though with the suspension of all vetting it doesn't really matter anymore, if the law is flaunted by the state the state is at fault

See above.

[nullBolt]

Just. Because.

We already talked about this not long ago. People who claim to be asylum seekers must be legally treated as asylum seekers until proven otherwise. You cannot turn them away at gunpoint without saying "nuts" to the the UN and the rule of law and all that jazz. Your beef is not only with Merkel and the EU, but with also the UN and the rest of the world.

The UN put Saudi Arabia at the head of the human rights council. Fuck them.

[SirQuiamus]

Based Saudis never sign any liberal UN shit treaties like we yuros do. /s

[smjjames]

Just. Because.

We already talked about this not long ago. People who claim to be asylum seekers must be legally treated as asylum seekers until proven otherwise. You cannot turn them away at gunpoint without saying "nuts" to the the UN and the rule of law and all that jazz. Your beef is not only with Merkel and the EU, but with also the UN and the rest of the world.

The UN put Saudi Arabia at the head of the human rights council. Fuck them.

*facepalm*

Remind me why we still have an UN if it's as brainless and ineffective as it is and the placement of the Saudis on the human rights council suggests? It seems to have become a forum for countries to air their grievances (still better than on the battlefield though, right?) rather than whatever it was originally intended to be.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was money and political favors behind it.

[nullBolt]

*facepalm*

Remind me why we still have an UN if it's as brainless and ineffective as it is and the placement of the Saudis on the human rights council suggests? It seems to have become a forum for countries to air their grievances (still better than on the battlefield though, right?) rather than whatever it was originally intended to be.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was money and political favors behind it.

Well we tried a UN once before with the League of Nations and that was a massive pathetic disaster.

[RedKing]

Though the League failed because it had no enforcement mandate (much like the current UN, sadly). Amusing how UN detractors always talk about how ineffective it is, and simultaneously about how it has too much power. Kind of like Tea Partiers bitching about the government.

The alternative would be to return to state-oriented realpolitik and webs of alliances and treaties that result in something like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[nullBolt]

Though the League failed because it had no enforcement mandate (much like the current UN, sadly). Amusing how UN detractors always talk about how ineffective it is, and simultaneously about how it has too much power. Kind of like Tea Partiers bitching about the government.

The UN is basically the gossiping Twitter of the international community. They bark and bark and bark about social injustices but shut up very quickly when someone shows they have a bite.

Anyway, being ineffective is not mutually exclusive with having too much power. I could have the power to blow the heads off anyone but I must believe they're criminals. Ineffective, useless and way too much power.

The alternative would be to return to state-oriented realpolitik and webs of alliances and treaties that result in something like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I really don't understand what, exactly, is wrong with that. What's wrong with a state being interested in it's own people and citizens?

[smjjames]

Though the League failed because it had no enforcement mandate (much like the current UN, sadly). Amusing how UN detractors always talk about how ineffective it is, and simultaneously about how it has too much power. Kind of like Tea Partiers bitching about the government.

The UN is basically the gossiping Twitter of the international community. They bark and bark and bark about social injustices but shut up very quickly when someone shows they have a bite.

Anyway, being ineffective is not mutually exclusive with having too much power. I could have the power to blow the heads off anyone but I must believe they're criminals. Ineffective, useless and way too much power.

The alternative would be to return to state-oriented realpolitik and webs of alliances and treaties that result in something like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I really don't understand what, exactly, is wrong with that. What's wrong with a state being interested in it's own people and citizens?

*points at the historical context that the Onion article is in*