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Author Topic: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread  (Read 1104844 times)

Loud Whispers

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2016, 08:18:31 am »

Be PC

SirQuiamus

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2016, 08:38:52 am »

In Potzdam, multiple people, including policemen, were injured when a group of about 100 Pegida supporters tried to assault a peaceful anti-racism demonstration. Fireworks, rocks, traffic signs and garbage cans were used as projectiles.
Enrichment of Germans by Germans. We'll be seeing a lot more of this in the near future, and it won't be pretty. :c
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Antioch

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2016, 08:44:51 am »

[...]

*(That reminds me, did anyone post the interview with that anonymous police officer from the last day or two? Where he spoke about if one refugee slashes another's throat, they're told to call it assault rather than attempted murder, as it looks better? Bernd K - or something like that - was his pseudonym.)

How stupid are those people to think that hiding facts is going to be beneficial to the situation? People WILL find out and they will only be more outraged.

Why is everyone in the EU suddenly acting like they are retarded?
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SirQuiamus

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2016, 08:52:10 am »

How stupid are those people to think that hiding facts is going to be beneficial to the situation? People WILL find out and they will only be more outraged.
It's not about "hiding facts" from the public – it's about covering your own ass from outrage ass-aults.

Why is everyone in the EU suddenly acting like they are retarded?
Business as usual.
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martinuzz

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2016, 09:08:13 am »

Joost Sillen, professor in constitutional and administrative law at the Radboud University of Nijmegen (NL), sent in a letter to my newspaper today about what's happening in Poland.
I took the liberty to translate:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.volkskrant.nl/opinie/de-rechtsstaat-wankelt-wel-degelijk-in-polen~a4223340/

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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

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martinuzz

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2016, 09:23:24 am »

The explosive rise of populist parties throughout Europe has indeed induced a paralyzing fear in figures of authority and 'politically correct' citizens alike, that's something like "OMG we are all going to be helping the new Hitler rise to power if we say something that is even in the slightest bit similar to what the populists say, or can be used by them for propaganda"
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 09:26:51 am by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

SaberToothTiger

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2016, 09:23:50 am »

And it's important to note that the TV stations in Poland now will be controlled by the government. Frankly, I only wait to see whether will the new Ministry of Love, Ministry of Truth, Ministry of Peace and Ministry of Plenty be created.

Bless the Party, or else.
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smjjames

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2016, 09:29:22 am »

The explosive rise of populist parties throughout Europe has indeed induced a paralyzing fear in figures of authority and 'politically correct' citizens alike, that's something like "OMG we are all going to be helping the new Hitler rise to power if we say something that is even in the slightest bit similar to what the populists say"

*points at Trump*

I know, I know, he's not literally hitler, but he's doing the same populist demagoguery.
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martinuzz

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #68 on: January 13, 2016, 09:35:19 am »

Yeah, I think he had some nice long chats with Geert Wilders when he visited the US, or more likely Ayaan Hirschi Ali (Former Dutch right wing liberal member of parliament, anti-islamist,  emigrated to the US because the Dutch government refused to pay the costs for protective detail after she recieved death threats from muslims, and after our minister of refugees has decided to take away her Dutch nationality and kick her out of parliament because she slied about her name and age when she originally applied for asylum), and has been part of the neo-conservative thinktank "American Enterprise Institute" since.

EDIT: I agree on us (west)Europeans being dogmatically anti-racist ever since WWII ended.

The anti-sexist thing didn't kick in till the late 60s though, with the rise of Flower Power, and feminist movements.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 09:44:29 am by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

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Antioch

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #69 on: January 13, 2016, 09:50:58 am »

The explosive rise of populist parties throughout Europe has indeed induced a paralyzing fear in figures of authority and 'politically correct' citizens alike, that's something like "OMG we are all going to be helping the new Hitler rise to power if we say something that is even in the slightest bit similar to what the populists say, or can be used by them for propaganda"

Personally I think that letting unlimited refugees into Europe was a very bad idea. The social unrest and political shifts it has caused are very real. The portion of the refugees that will not be able to properly integrate WILL form a new lower class with all the associated problems. Racist (for lack of a better word) ideas will be on the rise on both sides, making everything a pain in the ass.

Because it is predominantly the middle and upper classes that have the money to reach Europe post war Syria will be left with a severe brain-drain. It are also (despite what the populists might want you to believe) the more moderately opinionated people who flee, as they do not want to be caught between the extremists.

We should have supported the countries (and with supported I mean billions of Euro's) close to the conflict with handling the refugees. We have now split the refugees into the lucky/richer ones that were able to reach Europe, while the majority still lives in appalling conditions in Turkey/Iraq/Jordan. Not to mention it promotes a policy where ~1% of refugees DIE on their way here.


It is all the result of the world's inability to deal with the Syrian situation. Letting the civil war go on for over 4 years was basically the worst choice possible. But we are still feeling the after effects of Bush's horrible invasion of Iraq in terms of political will to intervene in such conflicts.
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scriver

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2016, 09:52:04 am »

Quote
or look at some of the links I gave about DN reporter Hanne Kjöller

Just to precise, Kjöller is an editor/opinionist, not a reporter for the paper (though she might have been at one point, I don't know).

How stupid are those people to think that hiding facts is going to be beneficial to the situation? People WILL find out and they will only be more outraged.
It's not about "hiding facts" from the public – it's about covering your own ass from outrage ass-aults.

To be fair, I think given all the evidence we've seen (hell, just google 'Swedish rape festivals', or look at some of the links I gave about DN reporter Hanne Kjöller), it really is about hiding facts from the public.

It's really both.
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smjjames

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #71 on: January 13, 2016, 10:31:17 am »

The explosive rise of populist parties throughout Europe has indeed induced a paralyzing fear in figures of authority and 'politically correct' citizens alike, that's something like "OMG we are all going to be helping the new Hitler rise to power if we say something that is even in the slightest bit similar to what the populists say"

I think you're mis-characterising it there by blaming it on the rise of populist parties, personally. These parties wouldn't be getting popular if there wasn't support for them; it's simply that this support isn't expressed in public, because of the stigma.

Look at Trump. As a non-American, all I ever see in 'normal' online communities like this one is people mocking him, pointing out how obvious it is that he's terrible, that anyone who would vote for him is stupid, etc. I never see anyone expressing support.

Yet the numbers indicate he has a lot of support. It makes me wonder how many people are sitting there silent when these political figures are discussed, people who believe in Trump, or the PVV, or the SD, or UKIP, or whoever, but don't dare to voice their support for fear of being attacked and ostracised by those around them. Is that what democracy has become? Hell, in my country many universities have started requiring men attending universities to participate in courses teaching them 'not to rape'. I've seen many anonymous accounts from students who are unhappy about this, but don't feel they can express this because they would be labelled as misogynists, rape-apologists, etc.

Even in the post that was made just as I was writing this, smjjames came in and compared Trump to Hitler (who serves much the same societal function in the modern world as Satan did 500 years ago).

As much as people might wish that everyone had the same views as they did (for one thing, I wish all the sexual attackers of Cologne and other cities had the same views about a woman's right not to be raped as I do), they don't. We have to accept that. This isn't just a fringe minority - for example, PVV now has the largest lead in Dutch polls by far. Making everyone who supports someone like them, or Trump, feel as though they have to keep it a dirty little secret just breeds fear, anger, and resentment. And when we're making 20%, 30%, 40%, even 50% of the population feel that way, it just divides us further.

Maybe if instead of making bogeymen out of people like Trump, the PVV, SD, UKIP, etc, we instead honestly tried to show our political opponents some understanding and respect... then maybe circumstances like these would never have arisen in the first place.

It's one thing to spout racist and xenophobic speech while discussing said topics and another to discuss said topics without spouting hate. At least we aren't afraid to denounce such hate speech.

Hell, you do know that he's been endorsed by white supremacist groups? Not extremely overtly, but the support is there.

Being American, I'm not familiar with the behavior of PVV, SD, etc, other than generally hearing about their far-right populism. I've heard quite a bit about UKIP though which sound like the far right wing of the Republican party.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 10:33:41 am by smjjames »
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martinuzz

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #72 on: January 13, 2016, 12:28:07 pm »

Being American, I'm not familiar with the behavior of PVV, SD, etc, other than generally hearing about their far-right populism. I've heard quite a bit about UKIP though which sound like the far right wing of the Republican party.

Well, I can't really speak for my neighbouring countries, but here's my thoughts on the position of populism in Dutch politics:

The current refugee crisis is not what has made Wilders populist party (PVV) suddenly rise to power.
Populists have been gaining support, and peaking in polls for nearly 20 years now.
While part of their electoral succes undoubtedly stems from the support of anti-immigrant, anti-islam or otherwise generally racist voters,
their strongest power base stems from a general discontent amongst the electorate, with the government that rules them.
Anti-EU sentiment being a big one there. One main slogan for the populists has been, is, and will be "We will not let Europe shove shit down our throats and take away our national democratic rights!"

Another big one is the destruction of social security, that has been ongoing in Europe ever since Thatcher, and went into overdrive with the convergence to the Euro and the Treaty of Lisbon.

Traditionally, we have always had the labour party (PvdA), that would stand up for the worker's rights, and social security for the sick, elderly and poor, and which could find enough voting backup amongst left wing opposition, and coalition partners from the christian democrats, to provide a balanced counterweight for keeping our welfare state from succumbing to neo-conservative views of the 'liberal' party (VVD).

But there has been a shift of balance in 1995, when the PvdA made a 180, and decided that forming unbalanced coalition governments with the neo-conservative party, was worth sacrificing standing up for labour rights and social security, and going full "EU über alles" for. Their foreman literally said in his speech that "it is time to shake off our ideological feathers"

This left a large part of their electorate, mostly lower income class workers, and social liberals completely desillusioned.
At first, this gap was for one part filled by small local parties, which although populist, were too scattered to get much influence in national government, for another by the socialist party (SP), and to a lesser extent, the green liberal (pro-EU) party (Groen Links).

This changed when Pim Fortuijn, former member of one of these local parties, got kicked out of his local party, and formed his own nationally-oriented party called LPF, in 2002.
Now the LPF was a populist party pur sang. Their main slogan was that they thought the current government stood too far away from the people in their ivory tower. And that's exactly what the desillusioned voters wanted to hear. They did adress the issue of failed multi-culturalism, but it was nowhere near as prominent, nor as racist or hate inciting back then, as Wilders' current retoric is, nor was it the main reason for their electoral success. It was the first time however, that talking about multicultural problems was lifted from it's taboo in the political arena.

With Pim Fortuyn being a charismatic media person, LPF was soon hyped, and polls predicted that it was very possible that he would become the next prime minister.
But then, on the 6th of may 2002, he was murdered by a left-wing activist. Volkert van der Graaff, a lawyer specializing in environmentalist cases, ambushed him when he exited the media complex right after an interview, and shot him in the head. He motivated his actions before the court by stating that in his opinion "Pim Fortuijn was a danger to the weak amongst society".

In the subsequent elections, the LPF, despite their main candidate being dead, won 26 seats in parliament, which gave them a position in government. The left wing opposition parties see some loss, probably due to the killer's alleged affiliation.

From this point on, the LPF starts profiling itself more and more against immigrants. Not before too long though, the party disintegrates because of internal arguments and mudslinging.

What remains though, is the lingering public debate on multiculturalism and immigration.
When in 2004, Dutch entertainer Theo van Gogh is shot dead with 8 bullets in broad daylight by a muslim extremist, who pins a note on his dead chest with a knife, threatening Ayaan Hirschi Ali that she is next, things go south pretty quickly. Our national thinktank, the Clingendael Institute, says the murder of van Gogh has had much more of an impact on anti-islam sentiment than 9/11 ever had.

At first there's Rita Verdonk, who secedes from the VVD, and forms her own 'Proud on the Netherlands' party, promising less immigration.
She lacks any charisma though, and after a few political missteps, she and her party sink into oblivion.
In 2004, Geert Wilders also secedes from the VVD to form a one man party, which he later turns into the 'Party for Freedom', which first joins the elections in 2006, gaining 9 seats in parliament, which is pretty significant for a newcomer. Ever since, he has been slowly rising in popularity, with a small dip after a government fell which was 'endorsed' by his party.

Now what Wilders is doing differently than the other populist parties before him (except the LPF), is that while he uses anti-islam and anti immigration as a very important tool for hyping, he also keeps stressing that he wants out of the EU, that he wants our poor elderly to get proper care, that he wants people who work to have a decent income, and that more money will go to schools and hospitals.
More generally, he is going back to the basics that got LPF to peak out of nowhere;
He is saying that the current government, as well as the opposition have lost all contact with the people.
 
What has helped him a lot with the anti-EU part is the fact that a majority of the Dutch voted NO! when a referendum was held on the European Constitution in juli 2005. The Treaty of Lisbon that circumvented that, is still a painful issue for a lot of Dutch voters.

Him appearing on the media all the time to cry for social rights and promise old ladies they'll get cleaned more often has drawn a lot of lower income class voters that used to vote labour or socialist, to vote for him. The media's lust for hype is partly to blame there. The socialist party's foreman is less charismatic, and too polite too shout as loudly, so that has less media value.

But what I'm trying to say is that, even without the refugee crisis, or the Paris attack, his party was peaking big regularily in the polls, and not just because, foreigners, but largely, because general discontent and lack of solid presentation of any alternative.
Not saying that the refugee crisis or Paris doesn't benefit him though. Wilders is a very shrewd spin doctor, and should not be underestimated.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 06:23:55 pm by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Loud Whispers

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #73 on: January 13, 2016, 05:07:50 pm »

Personally I think that letting unlimited refugees into Europe was a very bad idea. The social unrest and political shifts it has caused are very real. The portion of the refugees that will not be able to properly integrate WILL form a new lower class with all the associated problems. Racist (for lack of a better word) ideas will be on the rise on both sides, making everything a pain in the ass.
Because it is predominantly the middle and upper classes that have the money to reach Europe post war Syria will be left with a severe brain-drain. It are also (despite what the populists might want you to believe) the more moderately opinionated people who flee, as they do not want to be caught between the extremists.
("refugees")
Anyways who cares, this is good for everyone except Sweden and Germany... And Italy... France... Greece... Serbia... Denmark... Croatia... Erm...
On the bright side Germany will be a new nation ripe for D&C, disunity in diversity for maximum checki brecki and dissolution of the dildocracy

We should have supported the countries (and with supported I mean billions of Euro's) close to the conflict with handling the refugees. We have now split the refugees into the lucky/richer ones that were able to reach Europe, while the majority still lives in appalling conditions in Turkey/Iraq/Jordan. Not to mention it promotes a policy where ~1% of refugees DIE on their way here.
But muh signalling

Anti-EU sentiment being a big one there. One main slogan for the populists has been, is, and will be "We will not let Europe shove shit down our throats and take away our national democratic rights!"
I don't see how you could be ok with the Union shoving shit down your throat and taking away your national democratic rights. Do you control your interest rates? No. Do you control your banks? No. Do you have a say in world trade? No. Do you have a say in world security? Only France and the UK, whom Germany wishes to relinquish to the EU. Do you control your armies? EU pushing for common army. Eurozone crisis? Well the answer is to give the EU Fiscal powers. Euroskepticism? The answer is to make EU law have supremacy. Do you control your borders? Get out nah.

Another big one is the destruction of social security, that has been ongoing in Europe ever since Thatcher, and went into overdrive with the convergence to the Euro and the Treaty of Lisbon.
The left wing parties dropping the working class like a hot potato and replacing them with immigrants has left them with only one place to go

But what I'm trying to say is that, even without the refugee crisis, or the Paris attack, his party was peaking big regularily in the polls, and not just because, foreigners, but largely, because general discontent and lack of solid presentation of any alternative.
Not saying that the refugee crisis or Paris doesn't benefit him though. Wilders is a very shrewd spin doctor, and should not be underestimated.
Immigrants abusing the EU to blow Europeans up is not something that needs spinning m8

The explosive rise of populist parties throughout Europe has indeed induced a paralyzing fear in figures of authority and 'politically correct' citizens alike, that's something like "OMG we are all going to be helping the new Hitler rise to power if we say something that is even in the slightest bit similar to what the populists say, or can be used by them for propaganda"
Well that's funny because the politically correct seemed to have done a good job paralyzing themselves with the fear of being racist before populists popped up for the populist party

Helgoland

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
« Reply #74 on: January 14, 2016, 11:56:00 am »

EDIT: See, I don't think this will help either.
Quote from: Otto von Bismarck
Die Liebe der Türken und Deutschen zueinander ist so alt, daß sie niemals zerbrechen wird.
It happened in response to a terrorist attack in Turkey which killed several Germans. Germany has lots of Turkish folks, and an established Turkish community. Lots of Germans go on holiday in Turkey. The relationship between Germany and Turkey is deep, complex, and your statement does not appear to take that into account at all.
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