Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[penguinofhonor]

To make this abundantly clear: I did not lock my thread, it was Toady. We were not doing a good job self-moderating. If this thread is going to succeed it will have to be better than that one (and the two before it).

[Frumple]

It's difficult to get statistics on a wide-scale for this kind of thing, I find. There are sources available in more small-scale terms, though: 'Recent police statistics showed that in the capital city of Oslo, 100 percent of assault rapes between strangers were committed by immigrant, non-Western males. And nine out of 10 of their victims were native Norwegian women.'

... cov, that article is from 2011. The number you're quoting is also entirely unsourced, and focusing on the absolute smallest subset of rape cases. It also appears to be about as much fabrication as fact. Apologies for the fairly obviously biased website, for what it's worth, it was just the first hit that addressed the subject and I really don't give enough of a damn about data half a decade out of date to keep searching. Fairly relevant:

Statistics regarding assault rapists:

The Oslo Police District has given a report of rapes in Oslo in 2010. The report shows that for all types of rape, except assault rape, European perpetrators are in the majority, and they are mostly Norwegian. Assault rapes covers only five identified unique person. These have all a foreign origin. The number is however, so low that it does not provide a basis for drawing conclusions with regard to country of origin. Two of them were very young (under 18) and two had severe psychiatric diagnoses and cannot be regarded as representative of their ethnic culture. It is highlighted in the report that generalizations like “Oslo’s rapists are foreigners”, which have been seen in media, are wrong. The report gives no statistics regarding religion of rapists.”

Yours Sincerely,

Grethe Kleivan

Deputy Director General

---

... to the question above it, the natives have still been doing their thing, it's just not really newsworthy. 2015 statistics seem to still be propagating, though you can find stuff on a country as opposed to EU-wide level relatively easier. You might check here, though it seems to be lagging a couple years behind, as statistics are wont to do. Germany has some 2014 numbers in easy formatting here, and you can pop back to the home site to find out more. Been looking at the numbers a bit myself, but I'm still kinda' waiting for the immediate furor to die down some, so I can actually search google without being buried in a thousand tons of nativist panic.

Maybe some of our EU folks know of some good sources for raw data, particularly more recent stuff?

[Shadowlord]

Clicked link by 'Covenant' on quote which mentioned particularly remarkable statistics. Got website with long article framed by large "Have you found Jesus yet?", "Have you started your journey with God?", etc, banners. SEEMS UNBIASED.

Frumple ninja'd me on the rest. (and maybe answered my question? Will click when not on phone  )

[Frumple]

... well, if someone wants norway numbers that aren't from five years ago, and again apparently not sourced (or, at least, I dug back about three links before giving up, because, again, 2011, not terribly interested), this seems to be about the best site I've found, yet. Norway seems to be doing pretty good on crime (reduction, at least), at least up through 2014.

Seriously, someone (else) needs to go through EU's major statistics websites and just... compile that stuff. Give folks a list. Talk the OP (or whatever the next one is) into editing it into the first post.

[scriver]

Most Swedish governments are jot allowed to track things such of ethnicity or religion (because of the historical persecution of Sami, Roma, Jews and Catholics), and I would assume at least the other Scandinavian countries have similar rules, so the statistics would be meaningless. You'd have to look at the victim's testimonies and/or interview them.

[Frumple]

... meta analysis is a thing, scriv. If you're worried about ethnicity being hidden, compare previous years with the current, note immigration rates and unusual changes in crime relative to the population differential, and see what kind of discrepancies show up.* It's far from perfect, but it's probably going to be better then many victim testimonies, which are about as notoriously unreliably as they get and generally freakishly terrible at demonstrating any actual trends. Good for news, sometimes good (or at least best-available) for criminal persecution, bad for country-level (or wider) awareness.

*An example could be made of the germany flyer I linked a bit up -- overall crime rates for the country had increased by ~2%, or ~100k cases, over the 2014 period, but a huge chunk of that was in relation to things like border violations and similar crimes -- almost all of the increase in non-german related suspects were accountable by those. Numbers paint a picture even when the full details aren't there.

[scriver]

... meta analysis is a thing, scriv. If you're worried about ethnicity being hidden

If I'm worried? You were the one to ask for compiled statistics on the matter.

[Helgoland]

1) It's Weil am Rhein - the 'a' is lowercase because 'am' is a preposition.
2) You're linking to the Welt. That's pretty much the worst right-wing Schmierblatt you can read without being outright lynched by a mob of academics. It's like BILD for intellectuals, which is a self-contradictory concept.

Regarding Merkel's best possible successor being Merkel: It was mostly a joke, yeah. The fact still is though that no-one better than Merkel is around, really, at least since Steinbrück got fucked over by his own party back in 2013.

[Helgoland]

Yeah. I feel it's important to mention though that the second incident you talk about was mainly ass-grabbing. Bad enough in and of itself, but much less violent than anything that warrants using the word 'attack'.

[Loud Whispers]

I believe that's because despite looking like a used-car salesman who drowns children in canals he's still one of their most presentable members, possibly because a not insignificant chunk of their MPs are just shy of being the same sort as the UKIP members who kept causing political snafus by ranting about people with different skin colours and homosexuals.

If you live in the GMG HQ, not under the shadow of Westminster.

At any rate we're all going to be killed by RWDS or checkibandits anyways. WOOOooooo

I don't know, it seems light on details but it says one of the girls was touched under her bathing suit, doesn't it? I'm not sure I'd characterise that as 'ass-grabbing', which, in the West at least, has light-hearted connotations. This was sexual assault. Or it would have been classed as such in my country, at least.

And there's also the whole 'possibly raped' thing at the top, but that could be in relation to the Weil am Rein thing; I defer that to someone who reads German better than I do.

For me, the most worrying issue is that this young man, a suspect in a gangrape, was set loose with no sort of supervision or oversight, free to go to a local swimming pool and (allegedly) attack more girls. Surely that's going to have an effect on the numbers of young women willing to come forward and report these assaults.

Yeah if you went up to some bird and grabbed her arse it'd be hard to explain to court you were just being light-hearted and soft fingered

[Shadowlord]

Yeah if you went up to some bird and grabbed her arse it'd be hard to explain to court you were just being light-hearted and soft fingered

You got some splainin to do.

[Frumple]

If I'm worried? You were the one to ask for compiled statistics on the matter.

Generalized you, since that wasn't clear enough. Hopefully gentle reminder of how someone adjusts for that sort of thing. I'll admit I'm not too terribly worried about what you're talking about, though -- an increase in crime from a specific ethnic group or groups generally doesn't mean a decrease in that crime from other groups, so if other things are holding fairly steady, it's relatively obvious where a substantial amount of the changes are coming from. Again fairly rough, since the uptick in regards to a specific group is probably going to lead to more from everyone else, too, but better at getting an idea of what's going on than a lot of methods. Certainly better than most news sources available to the public, ha.

Also don't really recall asking for compiled statistics, though that would be indeed be significantly preferable. Any that actually has some sort of existent/identifiable source would be fairly nice, so long as it's actually giving the numbers instead of a mess of spinning analysis.

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You got some splainin to do.

We've got no fooling around with hens and cocks in the law court
Only light-hearted nandos

[Loud Whispers]

In all seriousness though this is the game being played in Urbagerma

American reporter in Egypt reporting on this got entangled with this game

It's called taharrush, it's like knockout only instead of knocking someone out you gang rape them, German police investigating

[Vilanat]

The Oslo Police District has given a report of rapes in Oslo in 2010. The report shows that for all types of rape, except assault rape, European perpetrators are in the majority, and they are mostly Norwegian. Assault rapes covers only five identified unique person. These have all a foreign origin. The number is however, so low that it does not provide a basis for drawing conclusions with regard to country of origin. Two of them were very young (under 18) and two had severe psychiatric diagnoses and cannot be regarded as representative of their ethnic culture. It is highlighted in the report that generalizations like “Oslo’s rapists are foreigners”, which have been seen in media, are wrong. The report gives no statistics regarding religion of rapists.”

Yours Sincerely,

Grethe Kleivan

Deputy Director General

This is an extremely bad debunking. I also can't seem to find a link to the original report in question.