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Author Topic: Isn't there just too much detail?  (Read 21122 times)

Libash_Thunderhead

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Re: Isn't there just too much detail?
« Reply #75 on: February 21, 2016, 06:41:59 am »

My problem is there are too many details about Urist McCrafter creating master piece bone bolts. Thousands of them maybe.
It is inevitable.
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Kirkegaard

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Re: Isn't there just too much detail?
« Reply #76 on: February 21, 2016, 07:46:40 am »

My problem is there are too many details about Urist McCrafter creating master piece bone bolts. Thousands of them maybe.
It is inevitable.

Yeah, there is a lot of stuff like that, makes it really hard to find the important or interesting informations. Maybe the info should be classed into different categories so the player can chose to only show parts of it like X's being attacked, and ignore all X made Y.
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tiresius

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Re: Isn't there just too much detail?
« Reply #77 on: February 22, 2016, 04:18:00 pm »

Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a mole man die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a mole man die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a mole man die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a mole man die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a mole man die.  Urist McToughGuy enjoyed a sudsy bath.  Urist McToughGuy was overjoyed in seeing a nice statue.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.
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Salmeuk

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Re: Isn't there just too much detail?
« Reply #78 on: February 22, 2016, 05:38:39 pm »

Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a mole man die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a mole man die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a mole man die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a mole man die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a mole man die.  Urist McToughGuy enjoyed a sudsy bath.  Urist McToughGuy was overjoyed in seeing a nice statue.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.

It's not very difficult to avoid reading things. Once you understand how the personality screen is organized, flitting your eyeballs past the recent emotional responses paragraph takes, what, an extra millisecond at worst? The things you should care about are highlighted, while everything else is there so you can pick out the hilarious details of a dwarfs personal emotional state.

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tolkafox

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Re: Isn't there just too much detail?
« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2016, 12:26:49 am »

It's all just random interchangeable gibberish and it's spurting out of every orifice of the game world.

Does anybody actually read all this stuff and not find it completely repetitive and overwhelming?

Fixed. O.o

In short, yes. Yes I do. Especially when I'm assigning dwarfs to be butchers or work outside, it's important that they have traits/preferences for their career and not, lets say, absolutely hate the outdoors or killing animals. I also like to build workshops out of materials they like, and have their furniture decorated with things they like.

You can also control what is shown in the activity logs.
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pikachu17

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Re: Isn't there just too much detail?
« Reply #80 on: February 26, 2016, 03:03:09 pm »

i love the detail. once i was attacked by a night creature. when i looked at it, i noticed it had a missing external rib. as it turns out that rib was knocked out by a goblin 33 years earlier. without details it would have been just another monster. with details, it didn't just exist so i could kill it.
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Re: Isn't there just too much detail?
« Reply #81 on: February 27, 2016, 01:56:55 am »

Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a mole man die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a mole man die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a mole man die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a mole man die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a mole man die.  Urist McToughGuy enjoyed a sudsy bath.  Urist McToughGuy was overjoyed in seeing a nice statue.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a goblin die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.  Urist McToughGuy did not get upset seeing a kea die.
One of my dwarves has 4+ pages of this before I can see anything else. It's kind of ridiculous that they aren't at least stacked by creature type, if not even just "...seeing X wild animals / sentients / enemies die."
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L0rd L33t

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Re: Isn't there just too much detail?
« Reply #82 on: February 29, 2016, 07:22:27 pm »

I have mixed feelings about the randomly generated things, here are my thoughts about it:

Titans/ForgottenBeasts: awesome. Each one is a unique monster that creates it's unique story. They're either beyond terrifying a skinless web shooting dimetrodon, or seemingly  innocuous (a giant feathery wombat) that you should not underestimate.

Clowns: Feels awfully redundant. They feel like forgotten beast ripoffs...

names of groups,notorious creatures and establishments: Great even if nonsensical(that can be funny at times). However the SHEER NUMBER of them makes sorting out specific information mind numbing.

Boogeymen: Okay

Night Trolls etc: Honestly I don't like how these are procedurally generated. They have such a specific behavior for being something so random, the random names trick you into thinking you're hunting a new creature you haven't heard about, and the default name of Night Trolls is pretty odd considering they have nothing to do with regular trolls at all.

Personalities: Okay. Can be difficult sorting out good info, at least the many colors of highlighting help with that. My huge beef about that however, is how conflicting information is so common. Urist McIdiot has a poor memory, terrible creativity and does not care about arts and crafts whatsoever. He dreams of creating a masterwork of art someday.

Books: I really like the variety and consistency here (with certian parts being multiple words like 1.Start your day with 2. Dwarven Rum as opposed to gibberish like 1.BEAR 2.PUKE 3.OF THE 4.SOILED 5.PUMPKINS). The consistency actually seems to make it funnier like Question Elephant Behavior or A Guide to Even Merchants etc.

Evil Biomes: Frankly i wish these were separated into two different map-distinguishable (and possibly overlapping) types: 1.Evil biomes with the wicked wildlife and hostile environments 2.Undead/reanimating biomes with syndrome fog/rain. The reasoning behind this is i feel like the undead just seem to take away the attention from the evil creatures, and the syndrome weather can render them nonfactor (the marauding ogres instantly suffocated. No biggie), and on the other side, people wanting to have a reanimating challenge embark might find themselves dissapointed when the biome shows no hint of undead.

Instruments:The names are random, the part amounts are random, the pieces are random material an appearance wise, the availability of certian instruments to be build able are random... CONFUSING! ME HATE! ME HATE! HAAAATE!
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TLDR
It seems to me that whenever toady makes a major addition, it's procedurally generated. Some of that stuff is neat, but the more he adds, the more it will seem like a gibbering fever dream of Tzeench then a fantasy environment. (no offense to him or his works, it's still great!)
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 07:43:57 pm by L0rd L33t »
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Sizik

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Re: Isn't there just too much detail?
« Reply #83 on: February 29, 2016, 08:55:02 pm »

Personalities: Okay. Can be difficult sorting out good info, at least the many colors of highlighting help with that. My huge beef about that however, is how conflicting information is so common. Urist McIdiot has a poor memory, terrible creativity and does not care about arts and crafts whatsoever. He dreams of creating a masterwork of art someday.

I'd say that is fairly realistic.
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Sutremaine

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Re: Isn't there just too much detail?
« Reply #84 on: March 02, 2016, 02:47:41 am »

Maybe he wants one so that people will shut up about him not liking arts and crafts. Maybe he's so uncreative that his dreams are based on the culture around him rather than his own feelings. Maybe he really wants to create a work of art worthy of a dwarf, but his poor memory and terrible creativity have defeated him so often that he's gotten sour grapes over this whole crafting thing.

If you to look at everyone on this forum and examine each facet of their personality in turn before assigning it a value, you'd probably find quite a few conflicts when you read the generated text report.
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Re: Isn't there just too much detail?
« Reply #85 on: March 02, 2016, 11:05:49 am »

I have mixed feelings about the randomly generated things, here are my thoughts about it:

Titans/ForgottenBeasts: awesome. Each one is a unique monster that creates it's unique story. They're either beyond terrifying a skinless web shooting dimetrodon, or seemingly  innocuous (a giant feathery wombat) that you should not underestimate. Good to see.

Clowns: Feels awfully redundant. They feel like forgotten beast ripoffs... Except they appear in large numbers, are significantly more frequent in their appearance, and, well, what else do you put under the candy?

names of groups,notorious creatures and establishments: Great even if nonsensical(that can be funny at times). However the SHEER NUMBER of them makes sorting out specific information mind numbing. Planned to be improved, and you can even improve it yourself.

Boogeymen: Okay okay

Night Trolls etc: Honestly I don't like how these are procedurally generated. They have such a specific behavior for being something so random, the random names trick you into thinking you're hunting a new creature you haven't heard about, and the default name of Night Trolls is pretty odd considering they have nothing to do with regular trolls at all. They're based on mythology. Isn't Threetoe an Lit major or something?

Personalities: Okay. Can be difficult sorting out good info, at least the many colors of highlighting help with that. My huge beef about that however, is how conflicting information is so common. Urist McIdiot has a poor memory, terrible creativity and does not care about arts and crafts whatsoever. He dreams of creating a masterwork of art someday. This makes sense. Internal inconsistency is quite common in people. Wouldn't you like to make something that is admired, even though you can't make art worth crap and have therefore internalized an apathy toward other people's art?

Books: I really like the variety and consistency here (with certian parts being multiple words like 1.Start your day with 2. Dwarven Rum as opposed to gibberish like 1.BEAR 2.PUKE 3.OF THE 4.SOILED 5.PUMPKINS). The consistency actually seems to make it funnier like Question Elephant Behavior or A Guide to Even Merchants etc. I like books too.

Evil Biomes: Frankly i wish these were separated into two different map-distinguishable (and possibly overlapping) types: 1.Evil biomes with the wicked wildlife and hostile environments 2.Undead/reanimating biomes with syndrome fog/rain. The reasoning behind this is i feel like the undead just seem to take away the attention from the evil creatures, and the syndrome weather can render them nonfactor (the marauding ogres instantly suffocated. No biggie), and on the other side, people wanting to have a reanimating challenge embark might find themselves dissapointed when the biome shows no hint of undead. If you're looking for wicked wildlife, go for a savage biome. You can remove syndrome weather in advanced worldgen.

Instruments:The names are random, the part amounts are random, the pieces are random material an appearance wise, the availability of certian instruments to be build able are random... CONFUSING! ME HATE! ME HATE! HAAAATE! There's a mod going to replace random instruments with RL instruments.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TLDR
It seems to me that whenever toady makes a major addition, it's procedurally generated. Some of that stuff is neat, but the more he adds, the more it will seem like a gibbering fever dream of Tzeench then a fantasy environment. (no offense to him or his works, it's still great!) He's trying to strike a balance, in between "Random Hell" and "Yet Another Stock Fantasy Universe". Right now, he's leaning away from stock fantasy.
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Isn't there just too much detail?
« Reply #86 on: March 02, 2016, 11:22:59 am »

It's not random hell everything happens for a reason and it is consistent. It's more a SIMULATOR then a generator and without all the detail  the simulation is less interesting the more detail the more consistent the world gets and the more immersive it becomes . Those who are against the detail are missing something about the nature of DF.

We need more sweeping randomization that effects the world so each world is its own unique fantasy world with its own unique history.And it is getting there, night trolls do have some unique per creature mannerisms (1 example is some eat people some eat bugs and each "breed" looks unique) you can learn this when you locate their lairs. (Also they are still a WIP)

Clowns are malicious scheming creatures that cause trouble in world gen aswell as fort mode forgotten beasts don't make alliances with gods and receive the protection of a god's Angels . Clowns do and you can banish them in adventure mode if you can locate the vault that holds the demons true name.....There is a whole narrative for each named demon that comes out of worldgen that you can read.. Also when you mine too much candy you unleash a named demon ( the other clowns are just creatures from the underworld who are aligned to the named one (think of it as a general)
Demonic deals are a thing that is planned aswell...

The point of the game is to  experience and effect and take on various roles in unique fantasy worlds, it generates a new fantasy world that is unique every time you create a world. People who jump from world to world instead of staying with one world miss out on the majority of content. Stick with one world play in all modes and you will get what I'm saying.

Each world is its own world with its own history and its own "rules" each world is SUPPOSED to have its own unique properties they aren't supposed to be the same and do (the creatures that exist in one world aren't supposed to be the same in each world) each world is its own singular cohesive world over various worlds it isn't supposed to be cohesive. They are seperate. And they will only get more different as he goes.

If you want you world to stay the same stick to playing that world.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 01:08:22 pm by Untrustedlife »
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pikachu17

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Re: Isn't there just too much detail?
« Reply #87 on: March 02, 2016, 12:22:52 pm »

what's WIP?
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Re: Isn't there just too much detail?
« Reply #88 on: March 02, 2016, 01:00:11 pm »

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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

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Re: Isn't there just too much detail?
« Reply #89 on: March 02, 2016, 07:45:53 pm »

Contrasting or contradictory personality traits are neccesary to properly depict a dwarf. No person is cohesive to such a degree that all their interests match up with their strengths, or that their weaknesses only lead to fear. Our modern society certainly encourages that sort of self-reflective specialization but it's not particularly common (or healthy). The thing about the personality paragraph is that you really have to read into it the sorts of idiosyncrasies we all carry. It's pretty magical the depth of personality you can find in a few contradictory motivations.
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