Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Preventing the dogpile  (Read 2870 times)

Iamblichos

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Preventing the dogpile
« on: December 23, 2015, 11:42:52 am »

So... my new settlement was doing fairly well, still in the early stages.  Had five seasons and about 50 dwarves.  A werelizard attacked; OK, no big.  Lock the doors and wait for sunrise; only metal on the map is gold, so armor and weapons will take a bit.  EVERY DWARF IN THE FORT runs out and tries to dogpile the lizard.  All of them.  It killed 45 of the 50.

This is new to .42... I never had this problem in .40.  How do I prevent this?
Logged
I'm new to succession forts in general, yes, but do all forts designed by multiple overseers inevitably degenerate into a body-filled labyrinth of chaos and despair like this? Or is this just a Battlefailed thing?

There isn't much middle ground between killed-by-dragon and never-seen-by-dragon.

NedeN

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Preventing the dogpile
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2015, 11:52:24 am »

Burrows. I always set at least one burrow connected to the main dining hall/meeting hall with the still, kitchen and appropriate stockpiles all in the same burrow. Which includes a lever attached to the entrance bridge. Just turn the burrow on through the military screen when youre being attacked and off when the threat is gone.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 11:54:07 am by NedeN »
Logged
I watched a zombie dwarf tear off a girls dress and hit her with it so hard it became lodged in her skull.

Ghoulz - 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on carp insurance.

therahedwig

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • wolthera.info
Re: Preventing the dogpile
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2015, 11:55:05 am »

Instill prohibition. Drunkeness is what causes the bravery.

Alternatively, make the effect of alchohol less strong in the raws? Or yeah, a draw bridge to keep your dwarves in would do.
Logged
Stonesense Grim Dark 0.2 Alternate detailed and darker tiles for stonesense. Now with all ores!

Niddhoger

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Preventing the dogpile
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2015, 01:44:08 pm »

I've never seen this behavior before.  Civilians tend to run away from megabeasts in the first place... however you might have left an open path out of your fort besides that door (a tunnel somewhere that makes a diagonal connection outside?)

Doors make crappy fortress defense anyway- basically all your serious threats (megabeasts, FBs, Titans) are all building destroyers.  Goblins almost always arrive with dozens of BD trolls as well.  This is why we use (draw)bridges instead of doors.  One game I actually stopped to make a normal bridge over a canyon, and busted out laughing.  I was actually making a bridge to just be a bridge, instead of as a cheap floor/cheap roof/flood gate/gateway. 
Logged

MobRules

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Preventing the dogpile
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2015, 03:16:54 pm »

I forget where I saw it, but I think there was a comment from Toady somewhere speculating that he may have overdone the drunk=fearless when implementing drunkeness in 42, and that he might scale it back a bit in a later release.
Logged
Ninja dragons! Protect the masterwork roasts!
Is this biome reanimating? I really don't want to know what happens when "absurd numbers of megabeasts" is combined with "reanimating biomes".

Iamblichos

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Preventing the dogpile
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2015, 05:40:25 pm »

Doors make crappy fortress defense anyway- basically all your serious threats (megabeasts, FBs, Titans) are all building destroyers.  Goblins almost always arrive with dozens of BD trolls as well.  This is why we use (draw)bridges instead of doors.  One game I actually stopped to make a normal bridge over a canyon, and busted out laughing.  I was actually making a bridge to just be a bridge, instead of as a cheap floor/cheap roof/flood gate/gateway.

Yes, as I noted, this was in the first days of my fort.  Werebeasts can be kept out by doors - by the time a real threat showed up, I would have had bridges in place.  Didn't get a chance, though, because every dwarf in the tavern decided it would be the most fun EVER to go try to pound on the werebeast.
Logged
I'm new to succession forts in general, yes, but do all forts designed by multiple overseers inevitably degenerate into a body-filled labyrinth of chaos and despair like this? Or is this just a Battlefailed thing?

There isn't much middle ground between killed-by-dragon and never-seen-by-dragon.

Bakaridjan

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Preventing the dogpile
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2015, 03:54:18 am »

I had a similar experience in one of my early sieges and burrows didn't do a thing. Once my archers started shooting at gobbos from my fortifications I had civilians coming from 60-100 tiles away and start walking out the front door of my fortress past my stationed military dwarves. The weird thing was that they were just walking and would have the same jobs they apparently had before like "Socialize," "Listen to Poetry" etc.
Logged

Naryar

  • Bay Watcher
  • [SPHERE:VERMIN][LIKES_FIGHTING]
    • View Profile
Re: Preventing the dogpile
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2015, 08:11:16 am »

I'm pretty sure it's the vengeful thoughts from last update.

Solution is locking your fort. Or burrows, possibly both.

Bakaridjan

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Preventing the dogpile
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2015, 09:23:06 am »


Solution is locking your fort. Or burrows, possibly both.

Yeah, but that's really more of a work-around, than a solution. The idea that civilians have to be behind a locked door to keep them from rushing past your military into the midst of a goblin invasion or other danger seems a little ridiculous.
Logged

Naryar

  • Bay Watcher
  • [SPHERE:VERMIN][LIKES_FIGHTING]
    • View Profile
Re: Preventing the dogpile
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2015, 10:16:46 am »


Solution is locking your fort. Or burrows, possibly both.

Yeah, but that's really more of a work-around, than a solution. The idea that civilians have to be behind a locked door to keep them from rushing past your military into the midst of a goblin invasion or other danger seems a little ridiculous.

This bug has been around for some time. Civilian dwarves will charge and dogpile enemies they really shouldn't, especially if there have been dwarven deaths.

I think it's been around since the emotion update in last version... when was that ? 0.40.08 or something ?

Sanctume

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Preventing the dogpile
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2015, 10:23:09 am »

Gold Mugs are your new weapons as each dwarf will hold one and use those mugs as weapons.

greycat

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Preventing the dogpile
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2015, 09:18:30 pm »

The idea that civilians have to be behind a locked door to keep them from rushing past your military into the midst of a goblin invasion or other danger

... is how Dwarf Fortress has always been?  This is nothing new.  In older versions they'd charge into the goblin invasion to clean a trap, or to fetch a sock.  Now it's "to get a little excitement".  Or "the dwarven rum made me do it".  Does the wording really matter?
Logged
Hell, if nobody's suffocated because of it, it hardly counts as a bug! -- StLeibowitz

Skully

  • Bay Watcher
  • Needs more Cthulu. And foxes. Always more foxes.
    • View Profile
Re: Preventing the dogpile
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2015, 02:22:14 am »

I had like 95 dwarves all attacking a giant cave spider. I was basically like "well, that's how *this* fort dies." But then they won, with no casualties.
I was like "holy crap they did it!"
and then a forgotten beast arrives with fire breath. like 15 tiles away.
when my FPS settled I was down my entire legion of war rhinos and like 80 dwarves.
And the booze. WE LOST THE BOOZE. Some dwarf must have made it back and evaporated it.
Anyway, fort's still going strong somehow.
Also in this one like 5 minutes after embarking my miner became the new king. Wonder how that happened.
I also have a civ where, as far as I can tell, 100% of the citizens are of a different race from the one it's listed as. :/
Logged

Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

  • Bay Watcher
  • what even is truth
    • View Profile
    • test
Re: Preventing the dogpile
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2015, 03:42:09 pm »

Doors do NOT protect from werebeasts!
Logged
Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
Quote from: Salvané Descocrates
The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
Sigtext!

mirrizin

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Preventing the dogpile
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2015, 07:46:43 pm »

...Also in this one like 5 minutes after embarking my miner became the new king. Wonder how that happened.
I think, in that case, that means your current fort is the only fort left in your civilization.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2