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Author Topic: Omega Legion: Omega Base  (Read 284283 times)

Lenglon

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Re: Omega Legion: Omega Base
« Reply #2805 on: June 19, 2018, 08:27:04 pm »

wiki link
Basically, take someone that's barely alive, replace their everything with cybernetics, and permanantly encase them in a heavily armored mech. Lifespan: indefinate. Power source: mech power source. Biological needs: none except occasionally some sleep would be nice. They're more machine than man, but are TECHNICALLY alive and... human??
It's kinda "necromancy" too if you think about it, isn't it? Something that should be dead, but isn't.
Nah, it's just... EXTENSIVE life support systems.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Omega Legion: Omega Base
« Reply #2806 on: June 19, 2018, 08:27:57 pm »

I think Terminators would count as undead in any case.

Termies are just dudes in really big suits though.
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SuperDino85

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Re: Omega Legion: Omega Base
« Reply #2807 on: June 19, 2018, 08:51:10 pm »

Yeah I remember, the points are the same since the last level up.
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Lenglon

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Re: Omega Legion: Omega Base
« Reply #2808 on: June 20, 2018, 02:07:38 am »

So, a few questions about the new system:
how will the substat modifiers scale as people level. Are they unchanging and you only raise the main stat values? Or just how do those two values interact anyway?
Also, Im having trouble picking a replacement specialization. Can I leave it open to be picked at a later time? Restricted to picking it while off-mission of course, having a wildcard spec on-mission would be exploitable.
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

Ozarck

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Re: Omega Legion: Omega Base
« Reply #2809 on: June 20, 2018, 02:31:08 am »

Why would it only be necromantic forces that push a soul from some dead guy into a new body? One could see divine energies doing the same thing, for example. Additionally, I was under the impression that creature type depends on the nature of the body, not the nature of the mind inhabiting it. For example, would a necromanticly-preserved soul stuck to a life energy-powered living body act as undead or living, for the purposes of magic cast upon it? I'd imagine that a standard healing spell would be able to regenerate the body of such a creature, as said body is still alive.
there would be significant conflict between the life-driven body and the necromantic soul, just like there was significant conflict between Noir's Death Magic and her Healing Magic.

So, after checking in on Omega and noticing that the game was doing a major rework anyway, including expanding the tempdeath system to being much more reliable, I started talking to Oz about possibly coming back to the game. My big hang-up on the subject was that I get to bring back Aylia again, though I was ready to accept some rather major damage to her from the events that removed her from gameplay.
We spent some time talking it over, and she's getting some very extreme nerfs to her shifting abilities, getting locked into using Fey rules, having a Black Mark put on her that frankly alarms me quite a bit, losing a lot of herself (including all of her elven heritage, her forms roster, and even her ability to return to her base form), and so on. but... well, she's got a chance again.
So... working out what her new sheet will look like:

Spoiler: Aylia (click to show/hide)

Mission count: 4.5 (Alchemist, Wedding, Rampaging Machine, Lathal, Guest GM), none of which are included in sheet at this time.

One concern I have here is that you are dropping a skill and a stat by one level each to get the special stat. I intended for the special to require two stat levels to acquire. I have mixed feeling s about this though, as we are discussing the possibility of combining the XP pool for stats and skills, which I think is fine.

I just don't want to make it a mindless, dull, generic robot type of character. I'm not really sure how to archieve that without it counting as "necromancy".
Oh my Gosh, have you seen Pancaek's Clunkers? Here, let me help you out.
*GM pulls out a Fairy Princess Magic Talking Frog Heart-topped  Sparkle Wand*
*GM waves other hand across the Universe, sprinkling Essence Of Reality*
BAM! Constructs can have personalities!
*GM drinks Chocolate Milk, a self satisfied smirk on his submerged lips*

Oh. The Warhammer 40k thing raises a point. Cyborgs are allowed. Creature Type: Living-mechanical interface. Magic Affinity: Mechanical.

wiki link
Basically, take someone that's barely alive, replace their everything with cybernetics, and permanantly encase them in a heavily armored mech. Lifespan: indefinate. Power source: mech power source. Biological needs: none except occasionally some sleep would be nice. They're more machine than man, but are TECHNICALLY alive and... human??
I'd modify it a bit, since a brain in a jar still needs nourishment. But this would be considered a Cyborg - a living-machine interface.

Yeah I remember, the points are the same since the last level up.
You should quote who you are responding too, so people can track what part of the conversation you are in.

So, a few questions about the new system:
how will the substat modifiers scale as people level. Are they unchanging and you only raise the main stat values? Or just how do those two values interact anyway?
Also, Im having trouble picking a replacement specialization. Can I leave it open to be picked at a later time? Restricted to picking it while off-mission of course, having a wildcard spec on-mission would be exploitable.
I made them into substats to reduce the complexity of chargen, so I haven't fully settled on that, but I think I'll grant substat points in level-up. Maybe what I'll do is allow an exchange of one stat point for two substat points, and have the substats raised according to the same algorithm as the main stat. Main stats raise as such
->weak 2 points
->basic 1
->appre 2
->master 3
->excep 4

substats count as the level of the base stat, plus modifier, so a -1 on a basic substat would count as weak, and would cost 1 substat point to level.

You can hang onto the replacement spec for now, but I think I'll require it to be chosen before the first mission starts. Ithink that will give enough time to settle on something suitable.

Bear in mind that all we are doing right now is fleshing out the system and prepping. I am going to create a new thread with new OP, where finalized Charsheets will be posted.

Egan_BW

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Re: Omega Legion: Omega Base
« Reply #2810 on: June 20, 2018, 03:03:04 am »

So if my Body stat is at Master, and my Strength substat is +0, upgrading my strength to +1 would cost 2 points, because I'm effectively raising it to Exceptional level?

Keep in mind, this would mean that it's a good idea to spend your points on substats first, while the stat itself is low, before upgrading the main stat.

Assuming you're starting at Basic body and +0 Strength, and want to get to Journyman/+2:
If you upgrade body first, that's 3(?) points altogether to get to Journeyman, plus 3.5 to get to +2. Total of 6.5
If you upgrade Strength first, that's a mere 1.5 points to get to +2, plus 3 to get to Journeyman. Total of 4.5

That is, you end up saving TWO LEVELUPS on the path to Exceptional Strength.
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Ozarck

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Re: Omega Legion: Omega Base
« Reply #2811 on: June 20, 2018, 05:01:48 am »

let's see:
basic body: str 0 (basic), dex 0 (basic), agi 0 (basic)
apprentice body: str 0 (apprentice), dex 0 (apprentice), agi 0 (apprentice) - cost: 1 stat point for 3 substat levels
journeyman body: str 0 (journeyman), dex 0 (Journeyman), agi 0 (Journeyman) - cost: 1+2 = 3 for 6 substat levels
journeyman body: str +1 (Master), dex 0 (Journeyman), agi 0 (Journeyman) - cost: 1+2+2  = 5 for 7 substat levels
journeyman body: str +2 (Exceptional), dex 0 (Journeyman), agi 0 (Journeyman) - cost: 1+2+2+4= 9 for 8 substat levels

basic body: str +1 (app), dex 0 (basic), agi 0 (basic) - cost: .5 for 1 substat level
basic body: str +2 (Jour), dex 0 (basic), agi 0 (basic) - cost: .5+1=3 for 2 substat levels
apprentice body: str +2 (master), dex 0 (journey), agi 0 (Journey) - cost: .5+1+2=3.5 for 5 substat levels
Journeyman body: Str +2 (Exc), Dex 0 (journey), agi 0 (journey) - cost: .5+1+2+4=7.5 for 8 substat levels.

aside from miscounting the level-up to master, you are correct. this method favors leveling individual substats first, in the long run.
Now, would it cost less to level all three substats instead of leveling the main stat?
And, what happens when someone levels a stat where they have a substat already at Exceptional?

Finally, do I want to cap the substat levels? Say, at +2?

Edit: I think this post is in contradiction with my previous in terms of level costs. Ah well, i'll figure it out.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 08:05:22 am by Ozarck »
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Devastator

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Re: Omega Legion: Omega Base
« Reply #2812 on: June 20, 2018, 06:18:40 am »

However it's decided, it should be a reversable situation.. the same statline should cost the same number of points, regardless of the order the upgrades were done in.  Substat costs should be independant of the main stat they're based on.

Oh, as for characters with alternate movement abilities, such as Freddie who can fly, how about listing that as an extra substat, starting at -1, to represent the bonus/penalty when fighting under those conditions?  People who don't have that movement ability would suffer the equivalent of a -2, but these rolls would be comparative to their opponents, so that guys don't severely injure themselves simply due to firing a gun inside a jungle.

The octopus would have had one for fighting underwater, say.  People without flying would suffer the penalty when they're trying to fight while falling through the air, for instance.

People could also pay the reward points for resources that would grant them the extra movement ability, such as swim fins and an oxygen supply for swimming, or jetpacks and such for aerial movement.  Costs of each might vary depending on things like size; it would cost more to have a large creature fly, for instance, and it would cost more to enable a small creature to swim well.  (surface tension, thermal issues, say.)  Once a character has the gear for the alternate environment, levels could be spent to improve that stat, increasing capabilities while inside that environment.

Lastly, don't forget the mid-mission level up for that most recent Lathal mission, after we got past the big monsters on the stairs and across the canyon, the exploding crows, the stink pit, the gnome fight, and getting captured.  I think Xan's character, for instance, got three levels before mission end, as that one counted double.
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randomgenericusername

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Re: Omega Legion: Omega Base
« Reply #2813 on: June 20, 2018, 08:06:00 am »

I just don't want to make it a mindless, dull, generic robot type of character. I'm not really sure how to archieve that without it counting as "necromancy".
Oh my Gosh, have you seen Pancaek's Clunkers? Here, let me help you out.
*GM pulls out a Fairy Princess Magic Talking Frog Heart-topped  Sparkle Wand*
*GM waves other hand across the Universe, sprinkling Essence Of Reality*
BAM! Constructs can have personalities!
*GM drinks Chocolate Milk, a self satisfied smirk on his submerged lips*

Oh. The Warhammer 40k thing raises a point. Cyborgs are allowed. Creature Type: Living-mechanical interface. Magic Affinity: Mechanical.
Ok. Then I'll just say it's a mystery magic sphere that contains the Golem essence and works with mystery golem magic.

Also, can I change the invalid proficiency to something like "slayer of smaller things"?
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The dog behind the man behind the beard.
Immortality like that would be even more game breaking than four Aaron's in one place.
You're both so obviously scum that this is a surprisingly difficult decision.

Ozarck

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Re: Omega Legion: Omega Base
« Reply #2814 on: June 20, 2018, 08:55:37 am »

Alright, try this on. I made a few changes:
added intuition to the Mind stat
changed combat to melee and ranged with subskills of natural weapons, unnatural weapons, and magic
added subskills to the medical skill.

Spoiler: Charsheet Second Draft (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Rules and explanations (click to show/hide)

health will be based on the stat targeted: physical health will be based on the constitution substat stat, plus size modifier, mental health on the mind stat, etc.
Armor will absorb a given amount of damage per armor type.

(WIP) for humanoid size characters, hp will be 2 for cursed, 4 for weak, 8 for basic, 12 for apprentice, 16 for journeyman, 24 for master, 36 for exceptional.

Light armor: 1 point per size class
Medium armor: 2 points per size class -1 to movement stat while worn
Heavy Armor: 4 points per size class -2 to movement stat while worn

weapons will do damage according to strength, dex, skill and size modifiers.
dagger, sap ~ 2 dmg
sword, club, arrow ~ 4
uhhh.... help me out here.

Lenglon

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Re: Omega Legion: Omega Base
« Reply #2815 on: June 20, 2018, 02:34:29 pm »

is it medical-mechancial if the medic is operating machinery to treat a human?
is it medical-mechanical if the medic is operating on a golem or cyborg?
is it medical-magical if the medic is using magic to treat a human?
is it medical-magical if the medic is using machinery to treat a fairy?

trying to understand if the medical subsections about WHAT you treat, or about HOW you treat them.

is a breath weapon Ranged-natural or Ranged-magical?
is a staff that fires a firebolt in a straight line with the body of the staff, when a button is pressed, so it's basically aimed like a firearm is and operated mechanically, Ranged-unnatural, or Ranged-magical?
if someone is a martial artist and armed with brass knuckles, is that meele-natural, or meele-unnatural?
if someone has a cybernetically implanted laser cannon with a red dot targeting laser for a sighting system, is that ranged-natural or ranged-unnatural?
if someone is a cyborg with a big ol mecha-taser-tentacle, is that meele-natural or meele-unnatural? what if the tentacle ends in a laser sword? what if the tentacle holds a laser sword?
if someone filled the Holy Grail with hydrochloric acid, used their innate magical levitation fingers to levitate it behind someone, and poured it down their neck, how would that be rolled?

you said mental health is based on the Mind stat.
the mind substats  Intel, Memory, and intuition.
the spirit substats are charisma will and magic.
please expound.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 02:59:26 pm by Lenglon »
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Ozarck

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Re: Omega Legion: Omega Base
« Reply #2816 on: June 20, 2018, 03:04:28 pm »

primarily, it is the means of medicine that are referred to. But, it is also the nature of the injury.
for example: a golem's internal gears are damaged: this requires medical: machinery to repair. On the other hand, if the golem is suffering from a fungal infestation, medical: natural would suffice.
If a fairy is suffering a bleeding would, medical: natural is sufficient. If a fairy is suffering a magical wasting pox ... well, medical natural is far less effective.


breath weapons are ranged natural
a staff that can be used by a button press would be ranged: unnatural. Ranged: magical requires the user to input magic into the attack.
I'm going to say that brass knuckles simply provide a damage bonus to a natural attack, though this is a bit of a judgment call.
cybernetically implanted? unnatural, unless cyborg is the creature type, as determined in char-gen, and the cannon were an inherent and non-interchangeable part of the body.
if the the tentacle takes the place of a standard limb, it is natural. if it is an additional limb beyond the norm, it is unnatural. If the lazer sword is permanently attached to a 'natural' limb, then it functions as a claw would. If wielded, it is unnatural.
if the magical fingers are a primary means of interfacing with the world, it would be melee: natural. If they are an aspect of the creature's magic, but are not their natural hands, it would be melee magical. innate levitating magical fingers count as a special attribute, unless the creature is a spirit or other type that operates primarily by magical means.

it's strange that the only one of these questions that gave me pause was the one about brass knuckles. They are good questions though. Thank you.

Lenglon

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Re: Omega Legion: Omega Base
« Reply #2817 on: June 20, 2018, 03:11:25 pm »

primarily, it is the means of medicine that are referred to. But, it is also the nature of the injury.
for example: a golem's internal gears are damaged: this requires medical: machinery to repair. On the other hand, if the golem is suffering from a fungal infestation, medical: natural would suffice.
If a fairy is suffering a bleeding would, medical: natural is sufficient. If a fairy is suffering a magical wasting pox ... well, medical natural is far less effective.
okay, so which one is rolled is based on the treatment type used, not the treatment target.
but how effective it is is modified by the type of damage the target has suffered.

so for example, if you are exceptional at medical: natural but only basic at medical: mechanical, which would be more effective at fixing up a golem?
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Lenglon

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Re: Omega Legion: Omega Base
« Reply #2818 on: June 20, 2018, 03:19:22 pm »

you said mental health is based on the Mind stat.
the mind substats  Intel, Memory, and intuition.
the spirit substats are charisma will and magic.
please expound.
I'm pretty sure I edited these in after you were already writing your reply and they got missed, so reposting them here.

also does mental health regenerate automatically over time?
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Ozarck

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Re: Omega Legion: Omega Base
« Reply #2819 on: June 20, 2018, 03:38:43 pm »

Since natural medicine has little effect on cogs and gears, I would likely roll the medical: mechanical for treatment of a construct's injuries, even if they have such a difference in medical abilities. I would, in such a case, probably roll a second die for the natural skill, as a modifier to the first - to mitigate the damage of failure, or to enhance the effects of success

each stat has a health pool associated with it: body, speed, mind, and soul. damage to the body -cuts, breaks, poison, etc. damage to the speed - other poisons, including things like alcohol, neural damage, loss of fingers for dex. Damage to the mind would involve impaired cognitive abilities, loss of memory, unstable intuition. Damage to the spirit would involve things like fear - causing one to risk freezing up on the battlefield or to turn and run, loss of social skills, or weakening of magical abilities. In short, the damage to each stat would reflect in the substats governed by it.

All healths will regenerate over time. I might reduce one's max health for particularly grievous wounds though.
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