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Author Topic: Hearts of Iron IV  (Read 104960 times)

Rex_Nex

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #225 on: June 11, 2016, 03:18:45 pm »

I don't know if Poland actually needs an early land grab. It certainly makes things easier, but after playing in multiplayer with my boyfriend I'm not convinced Poland is in that bad of a position. He entrenched his units, stacked defensive bonuses, spammed forts, used nothing other than 7 inf + 2 art divisions, and just weathered the storm for a bit while slowly collapsing a force around Ostpreussen. Once Ostpreussen was out of the picture, the Reich's offensive was beyond dead. He pushed out & on to Berlin and won the war once the Allies got involved and tied up some more of the German forces. The Soviets did declare on him too, but it was a bit late for that, he could pull troops back to hold the line without losing any ground.

I like the game, but it needs a ton more flavor & features to make the nations feel more distinct from one another. There's a couple dozen flavor events and unique focus trees for the majors (and Poland), but for the most part the game feels pretty barren. Luckily this is something I know paradox can and will easily fix, I'm just worried it'll take too long and all be in expensive DLCs.
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Glloyd

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #226 on: June 11, 2016, 03:40:37 pm »

They took out the tech from HOI3 that would let you class your nation into specific things, like pushing for guerilla warfare or whatnot. Now, no matter which of the four infantry trees you go down, your nations will all still feel the exact same.

mainiac

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #227 on: June 11, 2016, 08:55:03 pm »

I don't know if Poland actually needs an early land grab. It certainly makes things easier, but after playing in multiplayer with my boyfriend I'm not convinced Poland is in that bad of a position. He entrenched his units, stacked defensive bonuses, spammed forts, used nothing other than 7 inf + 2 art divisions

As Poland you have an advantage from your great pre-mobalization manpower.  The Polish Militarism focus gives you +2.5% of your national manpower as conscripts.  Even if you keep a volunteer army that gives you 4% of your country as conscripts.  If you spend the political power for limited conscription that goes up to 5%.  While line infantry is powerful it doesn't play to that advantage.  You can put that manpower to use by making 9 infantry divisions and just adding support to them.  9 infantry with engineers on grand battleplan doctrine is really good at digging in (of course give them support artillery too, since that's cheaper then line artillery and doesn't increase width).  Spam 80 divisions like that and Germany can't take an inch of polish territory.  Then just liberate poland east of Danzing with a smaller offensively oriented force.
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Sheb

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #228 on: June 12, 2016, 12:44:30 am »

9 infantry with engineers on grand battleplan doctrine is really good at digging in (of course give them support artillery too, since that's cheaper then line artillery and doesn't increase width).  Spam 80 divisions like that and Germany can't take an inch of polish territory.  Then just liberate poland east of Danzing with a smaller offensively oriented force.


Width? The number of columns has an influence?
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #229 on: June 12, 2016, 12:58:39 am »

Yeah, you can fit more divisions into a battle if they have lower width.
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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #230 on: June 12, 2016, 01:07:48 am »

The Oil Plant upgrade under the synthetic oil line in Industry research allows you to build "Synthetic Refinery (State Level: 2)". I don't understand the state level mechanic and I couldn't find anything on it through searching. Somewhere I read that oil refineries can reach a max level of 4 (through researh) and civ factories can reach a max level of 20??
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Jopax

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #231 on: June 12, 2016, 05:31:49 am »

The level is basically the limit of how many you can have in any state/region. So level one refinery lets you build up to one refinery in every state, level two bumps that up to two, etc.
Of course you also need empty building slots to build them, just like with factories.

Also about Poland, I know you can hold out decently enough, but I don't want to hold out, my ambitions are most of Europe and for that you need resources and factories, something Poland doesn't get very much of at the start. So the best first bet for that is Czechoslovakia with it's plentiful steel and some tungsten to boot, plus you get a bunch of stuff from them too.

Either way, I think I may have a way, basically influence democratic nations until they flip and the justify against them, since neither Germany nor the USSR often guarantee independance it makes things much cleaner if you want to avoid the allied wrath. That or you can try juggling two wars at once while having less divisions than either of your targets, it's doable but the timing needs to be good or else you just fail one front and it sorta spirals out of control.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #232 on: June 12, 2016, 08:53:41 am »

9 infantry with engineers on grand battleplan doctrine is really good at digging in (of course give them support artillery too, since that's cheaper then line artillery and doesn't increase width).  Spam 80 divisions like that and Germany can't take an inch of polish territory.  Then just liberate poland east of Danzing with a smaller offensively oriented force.


Width? The number of columns has an influence?
no. Each division has a combat width based on the units inside it. The arrangement makes no difference though, just the number
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mainiac

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #233 on: June 12, 2016, 10:26:42 am »

Yes, and support companies dont increase width.  Artillery companies in brigades ("line artillery") do increase width.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #234 on: June 12, 2016, 11:52:53 am »

more specific info:

The terminology is kind of confusing but each Division is made up of Battalions. Battalions are the columns, and they are made up of Companies I think. Each battalion can only have like-type Companies in it, based on what you pick for the top Company, so an infantry Battalion can only have infantry or towed equipment Companies in it while an Armored Battalion can only have armor Companies (light tank, medium tank, etc) in it. I think self-propelled artillery variants counts as armored too?

All of these Companies that go into Battalions have stats that influence the Division, but in the end the Division is what is considered for combat. The organization of the companies/battalions on the template don't matter at all. Each Company has a 'combat width' which increases the Division's combat width. Combat width for a single front attack is always 80 and each additional front adds (i think) 40 so it pays to make your Divisions around a combat width of 20 or multiple thereof like 40. Exceeding the combat width in a fight gives you pretty debilitating penalties and can make you lose absolute droves of manpower and equipment even if you 'win' the battle.

Support Companies add abilities or modifiers to the overall division without taking up additional combat width, so they are awesome for specializing a division. Things like logistics companies and field hospitals can massively improve your war effort, do not neglect them!
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Karlito

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #235 on: June 12, 2016, 12:24:48 pm »

Columns are brigades, and individual squares are battalions.
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evilcherry

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #236 on: June 12, 2016, 01:02:02 pm »

What you can bring into WoT will count as armor, even they aren't historically classified as such (SPGs, and to a lesser extent TDs).

A pure tank column will have so little org that they can only go in and out of battles. Mixed Divisions are, though, another story with reasonable Org and can steamroller over infantry-only units as long as they can't punch through your armor.

The prevailing mood of the times was always "Fascism? Look at those fine Germans/Italians, and how weeny our English/Americans. Anschluss? Well they are Germans. Sudeten? There are Germans living there. Marco Polo bridge? Nah as long as you don't stomp over our legations. Just don't spill over the channel/pond/ocean and we will admire your existence."
Not really. That might have been the opinion of Lord Halifax and Edward VIII, but that certainly wasn't the prevailing mood of the time.

Speaking of, does stuff like Edward's abdication show up at all in-game?
Chamberlain. Who would rather see a fascist Germany run Europe than another war.

"Admire" isn't quite the right word.  "Despise" would be a bit more appropriate.
unded.

FDR had a very hostile congress which enforced the neutrality acts. Only the sinking of USS Reuben James and Pearl Harbour turned opinions.

Persus13

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #237 on: June 12, 2016, 01:09:15 pm »

Have governments changed at all from how they work in Hearts of Iron III?

The prevailing mood of the times was always "Fascism? Look at those fine Germans/Italians, and how weeny our English/Americans. Anschluss? Well they are Germans. Sudeten? There are Germans living there. Marco Polo bridge? Nah as long as you don't stomp over our legations. Just don't spill over the channel/pond/ocean and we will admire your existence."
Not really. That might have been the opinion of Lord Halifax and Edward VIII, but that certainly wasn't the prevailing mood of the time.

Speaking of, does stuff like Edward's abdication show up at all in-game?
Chamberlain. Who would rather see a fascist Germany run Europe than another war.
Considering Chamberlain was prime minister when England began fighting World War II, he clearly was willing to draw the line before Germany tried to run all of Europe.
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Mini

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #238 on: June 12, 2016, 01:30:42 pm »

The Oil Plant upgrade under the synthetic oil line in Industry research allows you to build "Synthetic Refinery (State Level: 2)". I don't understand the state level mechanic and I couldn't find anything on it through searching. Somewhere I read that oil refineries can reach a max level of 4 (through researh) and civ factories can reach a max level of 20??
There are 3 types of buildings:
1. province buildings (such as forts and ports) that each have an independent limit (I think it's always 10) per province
2. state buildings that each have an independent limit (such as airbases and infrastructure) per state (I think the limit for these is also always 10)
3. state buildings that take up factory slots (factories, and also synthetic oil plants), which have a limit which is arbitrary depending on the state (loosely based on how much population is in it)

The limit for the last one can be increased by the concentrated/dispersed industry techs, and synthetic plants have their own additional limit (which is the one you saw).
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Kot

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #239 on: June 12, 2016, 02:54:49 pm »

Considering Chamberlain was prime minister when England began fighting World War II, he clearly was willing to draw the line before Germany tried to run all of Europe.
No.

Chamberlain never willingly moved a finger to stop Germany until he was basically forced to by few remaining sane Brits, and even then British declaration of war meant horse shit, they only did so because they were forced by papers. Britain (and France, for that matter) would leave Poland under Soviet-Nazi ocuppation pretty happily, so you can say that the actual war for British started only with Churchill. Norway was a fucking joke and IIRC the reason why Chamberlain finally realized his mistakes and retired to promptly die. If he had gone for longer I can easily see British troops running from Dunkirk (not that the actual soldiers were cowardly, the retreat went pretty goddamn well considering how huge strategical fuckup the whole "early war" was on Allied side, but that's armchair general territory*)after French bends over to prevent another big war...

...oh wait.

(*Note that this rant is only based on foggy memory and high dosage of Polish nationalism with no fact-checking because I'm on a phone in hospital and can't really check shit. Still, I am pretty sure that British declaration of war during Chamberlain meant absolutely nothing when it comes to wether did he want to let Nazis rule Europe instead of having a real war or not... which he most proably did)

Edit: Ye, I was mostly right. Chamberlain retired on the same day as invasion of France, also didin't declare war against Germany until 3rd of September in first place, and only because he was apparantly literally told that either he declares war or British government falls.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 03:03:42 pm by Kot »
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