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[Hanzoku]

Honestly, I wish there was an option to automate the whole naval part of the game away. I don't care for it, I don't want to think about it, I don't want to have to deal with it. Sadly, unless you're playing a land power in Europe, you're pretty much required to deal with it.

Or you can play a mod like the fallout one, where the naval side is basically gone for all but one of the factions.

[unauthorized]

Necro'ing the thread because I need someone to explain to me how naval battles work.

I've had situations where I have more of every stat. Bigger guns, better positioning, better screen efficiency, better everything... and I lose like 40 ships to their 1. I had DDs, CLs, BCs, BBs, and a carrier with naval bombers and fighters. That's a nice balance, right? So I need to know the different things that could cause such a crippling loss.

Are there any size rules to follow, like how on land you have a width of 80? I feel like I'm missing something big.

If you are losing naval battles decisively, this means you are getting murdered by naval bombers, you don't have enough screens, your screens are trash or you are hopelessly behind on doctrine.

Naval bombers are the most dangerous, you should never operate or fight in an airzone where the enemy has air supremacy, no amount of naval AA will protect you. This is especially true if you're fighting Japan, the kamikaze strikes melt steel battleships like nobody's business.

The second most important factor is adequate screening. Each capital ship (anything larger than CR) should have at least 3 screen ships to it (DD or CR), otherwise they will get massacred by torpedoes. Dead and retreating ships do not provide screening so don't run the bare minimum number of escorts, personally I aim for a 5:1 ratio.

Do not build all ship variants, always go for the largest capitals you can afford (BBs or CVs) and as many screens as you need. CAs and BCs are for poor countries only, if you are a major you should not be building those. CRs make better screens but they are also much more expensive and an overkill against the AI. A fleet can effectively use a maximum of 4 CVs because Paradox trademark arbitrary bullshit limits. Prioritize the capital ship supported by your doctrine unless you are going the raiding doctrine in which case just spam subs and laugh at the AI's inability to deal with them.

Every fleet needs some sub hunters among their escorts (optimally CRs equipped with upgraded radar + sonar + spotter plane + depth charges). This is because subs will retreat whenever they are detected by a ship with charges, but 1940/1944 subs can sneak right past max tech radar and snipe your capitals.

Swap out low tech ships from your strikeforces whenever possible. You'll usually end up running outdated capitals, but you should be constantly replacing older escorts or at least retrofit them. Spare outdated escorts can be retrofit for convoy protection, you don't need high end ships to drive away subs.

Naval AA sucks ass, don't bother putting too much on your ships and do not make dedicated AA ships, every ship should have some AA but more than 2AAs + 1DP is an overkill. Fire control is essential for every ship that relies on guns, your sub hunters and torpedo ships should use sonar instead. Keep up with radar tech and upgrade your ship sensors on all of your ships, they need to spot enemy ships to shoot them.

There isn't really a naval combat width except for the aforementioned 4 CVs per battle, but outnumbering the enemy gives you penalties so modernizing fleets is essential. The AI loves running outdated ships, as a result any decent 1940 fleet will always wipe the floor with them.

[Micro102]

Ok after diving into youtube let's players I found a guy named "Mordred Viking" who is apparently very adept at navy, and I think I got the gist of it from watching a few let's plays and surviving as France in a game.

I'll try to sum it up:

1) Make raider fleets out of ten or so subs each to raid convoys.

2) You need patrols to find ships for the strike force to kill, else you'll be burning through thousands of gallons of fuel. Make this out of your fastest ships that spot the best, usually destroyers. Again, about 10 ships per group. Set them to low risk or even do not engage, as they shouldn't be fighting, just spotting. (these are also good for protecting your own convoys).

3) Strike forces. Carrier are protected by big ships in a 1 to 1 ratio. Big ships are protected by little ships in a 1 to 4 ratio. So if you have 1 carrier and 10 big ships, you need at least 11*4=44 destroyers or light cruisers. Having too little means your screen is incomplete and your big expensive ships can be hit by torpedoes, and those really hurt the big ships. Too many and your positioning suffers. I personally wouldn't go past a 1-5 ratio.

4) Somewhere in the production screen, you can set the number of dockyards for repair. Jack that up. Also remember to use the "split off to repair" buttons because holy shit does it take a long time. Perhaps I should have just split my strike force into smaller groups.

5) Don't build big ships until you have a nice healthy supply of destroyers. You always need destroyers.

6) Enemy air superiority and naval bombers = bad. Stay away.

7) Have the appropriate commanders. Raiders and patrols need to stay away from the "slow to retreat" skills. Subs want damage. Carriers want plane stuff, etc.

Unfortunately I don't want to shell out dozens of dollars for the DLCs so I can't comment on Man the Guns, but I do know that patrols want spotting, escorts want depth charges, and everyone wants bigger guns. O, and mines slow ships down which is far more powerful than the tiny damage they occasionally do.

[Radsoc]

My initial impressions of the game close to release were not that great and I held off playing. But jumped back in yesterday and had a really good ride with bastion of communism-style Republican Spain, getting totally wiped all the way to the Canaries by the axis, holding there with 5 divisions until the right moment, and then mounting an invasion through Africa to final liberation, enabling victory in other theaters, through securing Gibraltar.

The AI is pretty good, everything works and makes sense. With the civil war, Gibraltar, Mallorca and the Pyrenees Spain makes for a very interesting game. Now it looks like I'm losing though, with the nazis gone the other imperialist bad guys have mounted an attack. Wiped my excellent airbases and airforce with an excessive 15 nukes, but at least I'm stalling until the Soviets decide to join the party, if they ever get around to beating Japan. Should have rushed nukes, the first one to nuke the other guys airforce wins, not sure what it does to fleets. Fleet update is good in any case.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

A fleet can effectively use a maximum of 4 CVs because Paradox trademark arbitrary bullshit limits.

That ain't really Paradox.  That's actually the limit IRL of carriers being effective, as adding any more just doesn't really add anything to a fleet's capabilities.

[Micro102]

I imagine it's something along the lines of "how many planes can safely fly in the airspace non-stop over a reasonably sized fleet?

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I imagine it's something along the lines of "how many planes can safely fly in the airspace non-stop over a reasonably sized fleet?

The problem is more how many planes you can have on approach at the same time to land, or are able to take off at the same time, while also having the carriers remain inside a defensive screen.  Only a limited number of viable routes, and when you start factoring in the crunch of needing to refuel and rearm, four's about as high as you can push it without rapidly losing efficiency and thereby effectiveness.

[Micro102]

According to what I've heard, carriers only need one big ship and 4 small ships for a proper screen. So if screen size needed was a limiting factor, than the limit shouldn't be 4 CVs, plus their 4 big ship defenses meaning needing at least 32 screening ships, as you can have much bigger navies with many more screening ships.

[forsaken1111]

According to what I've heard, carriers only need one big ship and 4 small ships for a proper screen. So if screen size needed was a limiting factor, than the limit shouldn't be 4 CVs, plus their 4 big ship defenses meaning needing at least 32 screening ships, as you can have much bigger navies with many more screening ships.

'proper screen' really depends on what the fleet is facing. 4 destroyers and one light cruiser isn't going to protect you well from a big sub pack or a large mixed fleet

[EuchreJack]

Necrobump for the latest update from Paradox studios.  Sorry I didn't see it yesterday