Hard to say that Israel is doing what Russia is doing. It's far more compelx than that.
Looked at another way (noting that you have to squint, to say this, of course, and tilt your head in a certain direction...), Israel has just had some small edge parts of it, supported by another regional power, advance into its territotory and make what was a seperatist issue into a hot war.
...now, I'm not saying this is [i[exactly[/i] like Ukraine. Rather than Ukraine being a natural consequence of the fragmentation of the USSR, Israel did indeed get created on the lands of Palestine. Israel, unlike Ukraine, has not just been defending/reclaiming territory unjustly removed from its nationstatehood, but is dealing with fragments of old-Palestine (and others) that, by past conflict and internationally-brokered agreement, are not it's territory in the same full sense as we'd even want to say Crimea is. And, for all the foreign support, Hamas (and Hezbollah, and any others I've forgotten) are no match at all for what Israel could do if it was hands-off 'uncivil' war.
But I think you can fully argue that Hamas made the rumbling 'grudge-fight conflict' made the first step into making this the warground that it is today, as much as if if Luhansk and Donetsk Peoples' Republics had been the ones to suddenly hot things up in Ukraine, rather than the Russian 'backup' force. (You can probably also probably argue that the warhawk Israeli government was always spoiling for a fight, unlike Ukraine, and their greatest failing was that they were taken totally by surprise (or allowed themselves to be?) far more than whatever it was they might have otherwise taken as a causus beli to the future strikes into Gazan/etc territory that they were probably waiting for the opportunity.)
In short, would those asking for Israel to go full-on ceasefire also ask Ukraine to down weapons 'to save lives'? (Maybe some would.) I mean, I'd go so far as to suggest a managed pause in hostilities in Israel/Gaza (even anticipating that Hamas wouldn't stop 'fighting back') and let Israel regain some of the 'high(ish) moral ground' it had immediately after the initial attack.
But you can't expect Israel to go onto the back foot, like you really can't expect Ukraine to suggest "Ok, how about we call it a draw" whilst there's that huge tongue of illegal annexation covering land that hasn't even been expropriated by dubious political means. There's no good answer, in either case, and neither answer should involve just rolling over and accepting the outrage perpetrated against them.
(From there on, it becomes a divergent analogy. It is quite clear that Israeli factions/interests have done so much to rile up their opponents, even apart from the actual matter of the creation of the state of Israel in the first place. Although Russian propoganda may say otherwise, you'd be hard pressed to suggest that Ukraine as it was is the same kind of over-aggressive party, or suggest any significant justification at all for the separatists/whatever.
And, especially in light of anti-Israeli/pro-Palestinian protest movements, it makes the international support position troublesome. But I know I personally can't support those who think that it's a black and white issue where Israel deserves no support at all. Even whilst I abhor that Gazan innocents are in the position they are in (certainly not helped by either side's armed wings (army and militia) and the bullheadedness and of their respective leaderships. Personal interpretation (or 'natural affinity' to either side, especially) can of course swing an individual's POV either way, and there's a lot of historic grief on behalf of Palestine/etc that can be drawn upon in ways that right now the somehow cannot be rivalled by the Jewish community's concerns. Until that Gordian Knot is succesfuly unraveled (however that can be achieved), I suspect that it'll be a troublesome roadbloack towards consensus.
Author
Topic: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included) (Read 274652 times)